Esquire magazine on LTK

Post by **Kristatos** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:52 am

http://www.esquire.com/_mobile/blogs/cu ... bond-movie

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Post by **Omega** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:27 pm

Nice write up!

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Post by **Kristatos** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:07 pm

Pity it descends into the conventional wisdom about DAD being the Fall of Bond, with Craig as the Redeemer.

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Post by **Blowfeld** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:10 pm

Kristatos wrote:Pity it descends into the conventional wisdom about DAD being the Fall of Bond, with Craig as the Redeemer.

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I was about to about this out. While it is nice to see Timothy get some respect after all he is a fine actor however I think it is a huge leap to make Licence to Kill one of the best 007 movies eva! Casino Royale too for that matter. In the end while I agree with some of the sentiments I believe this is a recycling of the 'Dalton was better than we remember' meme. When they start with the premise of common knowledge "that movie that isn't like a real Bond film" then go on to make it the best I think demonstrates the flaw in the logic. It also happens to be the flaw in the logic that supports current crop of Bond films. I doubt it will be too long, ten years maybe more, before we get Die Another Day and Quantum of Solace are not as bad as your remember.

Again it kind of demonstrates the True Bond Fans Only Like These 4 Films, all of which usually lack the heart of the series or books. I don't begrudge people liking what they like and I do agree Timothy got a bad deal the way his Bond ended, same for Pierce. While Craig is a fine actor in his own right it does not stop him being miscast and a miserable substitute for 007.

Daltonite Toothpaste · Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:38 am

'an okay but ultimately minor Bond film.'

What the hell does that even mean? It's nice to see love for the Dalton era, both films look to be following, albeit at a slower pace, in the path of OHMSS. And what's this about the Dalton meme?

Post by **Blowfeld** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:59 pm

By meme I mean there is a purest click in the fandom who now like to praise Timothy. That article reeked of other peoples ideas rather than a personal opinion. Of course that is my own opinion and coloured by my experiences with other fans.

In my mind I separate the true fans of Timothy Dalton, I know plenty who were there for him in the dark ages, from the ones who are now digging his Bond like a group of hipsters.

It's my own prejudice and probably is not fair to a lot of the newer fans. I do the same for Doctor Who, probably because I'm think about it too much.

Supposedly the producers in the 1980s and/ or the 1990s used to watch OHMSS before beginning production and ask 'why can't we do that now?'
Believe it was Peter Hunt who said this.
I can't picture Cubby doing this, maybe it was Barbara and Michael.

Daltonite Toothpaste · Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:18 pm

I never thought of it as a hipster invasion of Bond. I have been a fan of the Dalton era, since I became a Bond fan in the mid 1990's. I can remember a time when saying you were a fan of the Dalton era of Bond would be met with a reaction like this:

Whereas today, it's now more accepted that Dalton was a good Bond. Same with Brosnan, thought it's more the opposite effect.

Post by **Omega** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:26 pm

Too many make that face today IMHO. A poll at a movie site I'm a member had a poll of the bonds Dalton and Lazenby were at the bottom of the list. I'm glad the 50th set had sold so well maybe the Connery and Craig fans will give dalton a chance. Craig fans ought to be shocked because daltons movies are so much better than the Craig-Bourne clones.

I'm glad to see more places recognize dalton was good as bond. Although I do have to admit there were so problems with LTK, still a d**n good movie IMO.

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Post by **Kristatos** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:24 am

Blowfeld wrote: I was about to about this out. While it is nice to see Timothy get some respect after all he is a fine actor however I think it is a huge leap to make Licence to Kill one of the best 007 movies eva! Casino Royale too for that matter. In the end while I agree with some of the sentiments I believe this is a recycling of the 'Dalton was better than we remember' meme. When they start with the premise of common knowledge "that movie that isn't like a real Bond film" then go on to make it the best I think demonstrates the flaw in the logic. It also happens to be the flaw in the logic that supports current crop of Bond films.

I think the difference between LTK and the Craig films is that there was no indication at the time that LTK's going off-format would be anything other than a one-off. When you have a long-running series like Bond with a well-established formula, you can afford to play with that formula once in a while, to keep things fresh. There wasn't that air of embarrassment about the franchise's history that you get with more recent Bond films.

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:26 am

Great news. I have been secretly watching LTK for the last 25 years in the middle of the night with earphones. It's great news that it is fashionable to come out as someone who enjoys LTK.

Post by **Blowfeld** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:33 pm

Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry wrote:Great news. I have been secretly watching LTK for the last 25 years in the middle of the night with earphones. It's great news that it is fashionable to come out as someone who enjoys LTK.

Lucky you were not found out! hate to think what could have happened!

Look what they did to Prince Harry and William who also enjoy a little LTK from time to time

(There was a nice story about the palace butler if I remember it correctly secretly buying the princes a video copy of the movie when it was released)

While Timothy is not my favourite 007 I do believe he was Ian's 007 as written in his books.

I've been persuaded over time that because Ian was so involved in the first movies he in a manner established his 007 in movie form as well. If we take this a step further Timothy is Ian's 007 in the literary sense and cinematic, since Timothy's James Bond continued the cinematic tradition without losing all the little touches which made 'Bond, Bond'

Kiwichris · Post by **Kiwichris** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:04 am

Daltonite Toothpaste wrote:I never thought of it as a hipster invasion of Bond. I have been a fan of the Dalton era, since I became a Bond fan in the mid 1990's. I can remember a time when saying you were a fan of the Dalton era of Bond would be met with a reaction like this:

Whereas today, it's now more accepted that Dalton was a good Bond. Same with Brosnan, thought it's more the opposite effect.

I can relate. That's the face I get when I tell people Val Kilmer is my favourite Batman. Who knows, maybe in 10 years people will look back and think "Y'know, Batman Forever wasn't that bad..."

Back on topic:
"It's funny, but that's exactly what they said when Dalton took over as Bond. He was more serious, darker. Some critics said this was a bad thing, but now Craig gets kudos for it..."

That sentence is what really

me off about the reboot films. Craig being held as a genius for making Bond more realistic and gritty while Dalton was spat out for doing the exact same thing 20 years earlier. It does do some justice however, showing Dalton as a visionary who was ahead of his time. A shame the recognition was 20 years too late...

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