The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[The Sweeney]

And I think there is a misconception regarding `Craig fans'. (snip) So I wouldn't class them as Craig fans, but Bond fans who like Craig in the role. There is a difference.

I think that's understood, but it would get a bit tedious to type out "Bond fans who like Craig in the role" every time. "Craig fans" or "Pro-Craigers" is simply shorthand.

But the point I was trying to make was in response to Ale, who was dismissing Craig fans by saying they were not true Bond fans.

[katied]

They're true Bond fans. Very enthusiastic ones at that.

[English Agent]

This thing about being a true Bond fan dependant on which actor you like in the lead role is silly.

I mean we all have our favourites...........but i go to see a Bond film, because i like very much the Bond films, and not because of the particular lead actor of the time. Whoever plays the part, i always look forward to the next Bond film.

In fact i would say a true Bond fan, is someone who can accomodate some aspects of the times in regarding lead actor and style of film of the day, and looks at the bigger picture to embrace the series on the whole.

The only thing that bothers me is the quality of some of the films.
I like science fiction elements and gadgets, but i did get fed up with numerous space lasers etc.

We all liked Roger Moore in the Bond role, but some of the films he starred in had some very cringeworthy scenes.

Like 'Sweeney' has stated many times... i too also like the grittier theme in some Bond movies, including the Craig Bonds, its just that in the last film, it was poorly executed.

Ciao

EA

[Alessandra]

But the point I was trying to make was in response to Ale, who was dismissing Craig fans by saying they were not true Bond fans.

No I didn't say that. I said the majority of them who dismiss all the Bond movies and only have liked three or so of the 20 movies before Craig the savior came on board are not Bond fans. Not all of them. And I SPECIFIED that anyone who is a fan of an ACTOR (no matter who they are) first and foremost, rather than a fan of Bond, is not a Bond fan. Which is the same thing EA said.

In fact, this is the quote from my post:

The true fans of the franchise aren't the Craig fans (or ACTOR fans in general) that's for sure. The true fans are the BOND fans. There are a lot of people who praise Craig who are HIS fans first and foremost rather than Bond fans. Actually the majority of the Craig fans only liked two-three movies in the entire franchise and kept on hating on the other ones until Daniel the savior came on board. Surely those aren't Bond fans.

It's a fact that's easily verifiable on boards that the majority of Craig fans hated a lot of the Bond movies and only liked two or three of them before the arrival of His Craigness. I am in very good terms with some bright and intelligent Craig fans who are BOND fans first and foremost, and not Craig fans first and foremost. But they are a minority, as the majority of Craig fans are fans of Craig first and foremost and not Bond fans. And that, was my point.

[English Agent]

Ale

Do you really think that a lot of Craig fans, don't like the rest of the Bond films.

Well i for one like Craig in the role but also all the other Bonds.........maybe perhaps that at the age of 52 I remember seeing a lot of Bonds and therefore have experienced the franchise over the times.

It could be that many Craig fans on the forums are young people who have only grown up with Bond in the 90's and 00's and have only ever seen 2 actors in the role, and dismiss the previous Bonds of old as being dated and out of fashion.

Even i didn't see a Bond film until DAF, but though obviuously dated i enjoy the Bond films of the 60's.

EA

[Thunderpussy]

I have read many Posts from, lets say younger Bond fans.Who thing Craig is great,and love the Jason Bourne Movies. Sadly I think QOS was made with them in mind.
And as for Actors taking flack,Have any of you guys read some of the post attacking Sir Roger.
I do think you raise an intresting point that many Craig fans have only seen two Actors in the role and may dismiss the older Movies as Dated and Old Fashioned,Where as Older Fans Like myself regard them as classics ( even the slightly lack luster efforts )But it's like the old expression "Just because something can be done,Dosen't mean it should be done " or "If it ain't broke, don't fix it "

[oscartheman]

There are a ton of I'd say young Craig fans and a great number critics who completely dis the series except for CR which and maybe OHMSS and sometimes LTK.If there are 2 Bond movies they like and they cant stand the rest d**n right they are not Bond fans.I don't love every single Bond movie made since 1962 but I d**n sure enjoy them.When Craig was cast and people like us who were life long fans were attacked told we were not real fans because we don't like a miniature Red Grant as Bond,we were told we are not real fans because this was Fleming's Bond and the movies he was actually consulted and approved of were not what he wanted and we shouldn't even think of making a movie like FRWL again because it wasn't gritty enough and people make mock it with movies like Austin Powers.DAD somehow inspired Austin Powers 3 even though AP3 was released before DAD was finished.That is what happened maybe nobody wants to remember how they behaved or what their buddies said 5 years on.

[Capt. Sir Dominic Flandry]

But the point I was trying to make was in response to Ale, who was dismissing Craig fans by saying they were not true Bond fans.

No I didn't say that. I said the majority of them who dismiss all the Bond movies and only have liked three or so of the 20 movies before Craig the savior came on board are not Bond fans. Not all of them. And I SPECIFIED that anyone who is a fan of an ACTOR (no matter who they are) first and foremost, rather than a fan of Bond, is not a Bond fan. Which is the same thing EA said.

In fact, this is the quote from my post:

The true fans of the franchise aren't the Craig fans (or ACTOR fans in general) that's for sure. The true fans are the BOND fans. There are a lot of people who praise Craig who are HIS fans first and foremost rather than Bond fans. Actually the majority of the Craig fans only liked two-three movies in the entire franchise and kept on hating on the other ones until Daniel the savior came on board. Surely those aren't Bond fans.

It's a fact that's easily verifiable on boards that the majority of Craig fans hated a lot of the Bond movies and only liked two or three of them before the arrival of His Craigness. I am in very good terms with some bright and intelligent Craig fans who are BOND fans first and foremost, and not Craig fans first and foremost. But they are a minority, as the majority of Craig fans are fans of Craig first and foremost and not Bond fans. And that, was my point.

I have a lot of experience in studying the strange views of the CraigasBonders.

I do think they attacked parts of the previous series to support Craig's bizarre casting and the re-imagining of the series, which is why opponents of Daniel Craig were often asked if they wanted to see a "double taking pigeon wearing a jetpack in an invisible car which is jumping over a river".

They seem to only like some parts of the previous series and Daniel Craig's po-faced depiction and do not like the excesses of the cinematic Bond created by numerous producers, writers and directors.

[katied]

I don't want the double taking pigeons.

[bjmdds]

Bond of the 1960s IS Bond....Period! Everything else was made to follow that style. Until the monster currently in the role, Eon was able to come really close to following that style. Once Barbara got a sweet tooth for Cr-egg she pawned this grunger on the younger generation knowing full well they did not experience the past and she could get away with it. We are all Bond fans as is evident on the posting on this forum. It is just that in 2005 at a press conference on a river, a scared, life-preservered, ugly, dark blond person was announced as Bond and 6 years later we are still debating his qualifications. Eon just does not get and is royally wasting Jackman and Cavill as this juncture.

[katied]

Liver spotted is a better way to descripe Craig(thank you, I'll be here all week! )

[English Agent]

I do enjoy reading your descriptive comments on 'Craig' ..BJ

Anyone would think he was some sort of 'Shrek' creature!

EA

[katied]

The get ups he's always being seen wearing don't help his cause. Flat caps?I rest my case.

[Alessandra]

I have read many Posts from, lets say younger Bond fans.Who thing Craig is great,and love the Jason Bourne Movies. Sadly I think QOS was made with them in mind.
And as for Actors taking flack,Have any of you guys read some of the post attacking Sir Roger.
I do think you raise an intresting point that many Craig fans have only seen two Actors in the role and may dismiss the older Movies as Dated and Old Fashioned,Where as Older Fans Like myself regard them as classics ( even the slightly lack luster efforts )But it's like the old expression "Just because something can be done,Dosen't mean it should be done " or "If it ain't broke, don't fix it "

This for starters. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done, as I've said before "don't fix it if it ain't broken". People who dismiss the movies that originated the franchise as dated and old fashioned aren't Bond fans, it's as simple as that. It's like saying that romantic comedies of the 50s are dated and old fashioned thus not good. Or Hitchock movies are dated and not good. Huh? They're the basis of modern filmmaking. You're not a true romantic comedy fan if you don't even know who Audrey Hepburn and Grace Kelly are and you don't enjoy their romantic comedies, or if you don't like Billy Wilder.

There are a ton of I'd say young Craig fans and a great number critics who completely dis the series except for CR which and maybe OHMSS and sometimes LTK.If there are 2 Bond movies they like and they cant stand the rest d**n right they are not Bond fans.I don't love every single Bond movie made since 1962 but I d**n sure enjoy them.When Craig was cast and people like us who were life long fans were attacked told we were not real fans because we don't like a miniature Red Grant as Bond,we were told we are not real fans because this was Fleming's Bond and the movies he was actually consulted and approved of were not what he wanted and we shouldn't even think of making a movie like FRWL again because it wasn't gritty enough and people make mock it with movies like Austin Powers.DAD somehow inspired Austin Powers 3 even though AP3 was released before DAD was finished.That is what happened maybe nobody wants to remember how they behaved or what their buddies said 5 years on.

Thank you, exactly my point and you took it further. I am extremely annoyed by the fact a lot of these people don't want to remember how they behaved or what they said, especially when it comes about the specific observations you wisely brought up.

I have a lot of experience in studying the strange views of the CraigasBonders.

I do think they attacked parts of the previous series to support Craig's bizarre casting and the re-imagining of the series, which is why opponents of Daniel Craig were often asked if they wanted to see a "double taking pigeon wearing a jetpack in an invisible car which is jumping over a river".

They seem to only like some parts of the previous series and Daniel Craig's po-faced depiction and do not like the excesses of the cinematic Bond created by numerous producers, writers and directors.

Exactly why most are Craig fans and not Bond fans. Most, not all.

Bond of the 1960s IS Bond....Period! Everything else was made to follow that style. Until the monster currently in the role, Eon was able to come really close to following that style. Once Barbara got a sweet tooth for Cr-egg she pawned this grunger on the younger generation knowing full well they did not experience the past and she could get away with it. We are all Bond fans as is evident on the posting on this forum. It is just that in 2005 at a press conference on a river, a scared, life-preservered, ugly, dark blond person was announced as Bond and 6 years later we are still debating his qualifications. Eon just does not get and is royally wasting Jackman and Cavill as this juncture.

And this is the perfect sum-up of it all. There IS a canon to be followed for Bond and Craig's Bond just isn't it. The others all respected the nature and aspect of the character in more than one way, this one doesn't. I won't even get started on what an occasion they wasted with Jackman not to mention Cavill, and thankfully we're still in time for Cavill so that better happen ASAP, for the franchise first and foremost and then for those of us who want to actually enjoy Bond as he is and should be, and not some random action figure played by a guy who looks and acts nothing like James Bond (and again, it's not his fault, it's just the way he is).

And the description just had me I really have nothing against Craig per se, and I mean it. He's just totally wrong for Bond.

[English Agent]

There is another view to this argument though!

As DC received a lot of hostility to his appointment as Bond.............its just possible from a DCINB point of view, that when DC retires from the role, the next candidate for Bond could also not meet with approval here.

If Bond 23 is a success, and any possible subsequent Bond films starring Craig in the lead role, that EON might replace him with another similar actor!!

EA

[katied]

Some people have said that Craig will be forgotten as soon as the next Bond is hired.. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think there will be a fair amount of resistance.

[Thunderpussy]

I think the Arguments over Craig will rage on for Decades to come.He is after all the "Marmite" Bond You either love him as Bond or Hate him as Bond.I think if the series continues and he leaves with Bond 23, with another actor taking over (Henry Cavill ,for Ale ) with continued Success then people might look back at his time with a little more Solace. But at the moment a lot of us feel "Our Movies" (Having grown up with Him since childhood ) are being destroyed and after the Stinker of QOS,feeling the entire series could come to an end.
Not everthing old is Bad, and not everthing New is Better.(Better read in a Morgen Feeman voice ) I agree Ale, A lot of Modern film makers could learn from the older Movies.
Some like it hot, 1.2.3 , Bringing up baby, All made simply as Good Films on Budget, on time. By craftsmen/women, Even the likes of Cagney's "Angels with Dirty faces" has Cagney growing up basicly in 5 Minutes and your right into the Story,Where as today where every film has to be a blockbuster it would take an Hour and a Half for him to reach Puberty

[007]

There is another view to this argument though!

As DC received a lot of hostility to his appointment as Bond.............its just possible from a DCINB point of view, that when DC retires from the role, the next candidate for Bond could also not meet with approval here.

If Bond 23 is a success, and any possible subsequent Bond films starring Craig in the lead role, that EON might replace him with another similar actor!!

EA

You've just put your finger on the doomsday scenario. If the first Bond that Broccoli picked herself was Daniel Craig who is she going to dig up next?

[Alessandra]

I think the Arguments over Craig will rage on for Decades to come.He is after all the "Marmite" Bond You either love him as Bond or Hate him as Bond.I think if the series continues and he leaves with Bond 23, with another actor taking over (Henry Cavill ,for Ale ) with continued Success then people might look back at his time with a little more Solace. But at the moment a lot of us feel "Our Movies" (Having grown up with Him since childhood ) are being destroyed and after the Stinker of QOS,feeling the entire series could come to an end.
Not everthing old is Bad, and not everthing New is Better.(Better read in a Morgen Feeman voice ) I agree Ale, A lot of Modern film makers could learn from the older Movies.
Some like it hot, 1.2.3 , Bringing up baby, All made simply as Good Films on Budget, on time. By craftsmen/women, Even the likes of Cagney's "Angels with Dirty faces" has Cagney growing up basicly in 5 Minutes and your right into the Story,Where as today where every film has to be a blockbuster it would take an Hour and a Half for him to reach Puberty

True!

And, absolutely agreed on older movies, my big passion.

There is one major thing that is being left out of this and it's not secondary: MONEY. QoS was a LOSS for the studio and CR didn't make them rake in as much profits as DAD did (PROFITS not REVENUE). No it didn't, for you Craig fans. Ask those who have access to that data and they'll confirm. So, however this goes, the experiment is pretty much guaranteed to end with Craig. Because he and his kind of movies simply don't make as much profits (I repeat again: profits, not revenues) as the traditional ones do. This went on just and only because Babs had it her way. Once they're done with Bond 23, that's most likely it. And, new partners won't stand for an actor like him anyway.

And no, I don't think Bond 23 will break records at the box office at all, least of all in general, not with the news we're getting. And not with the movies it will be up against. Cavill's movie "Immortals" is being released on Nov. 11 together with Jack and Jill, the Adam Sandler/Katie Holmes/Al Pacino comedy blockbuster. That gives Bond 23 basically two days of time alone at the box office, and that is it. Breaking Dawn, the new Twilight movie, will be released Nov. 18, which means from there on there will be only crumbs for other movies. And the same weekend there's Happy Feet 2 (reminder that the first one defeated QoS at the box office, curious pattern here, I hadn't realized).

Sorry, the Golden Globes are on and I am not just interested but also reporting on them... and Jon Hamm just walked the red carpet in all his glorious hotness. Now THERE are Bond looks and attitude. *swoon*

[The Sweeney]

It's a fact that's easily verifiable on boards that the majority of Craig fans hated a lot of the Bond movies and only liked two or three of them before the arrival of His Craigness. I am in very good terms with some bright and intelligent Craig fans who are BOND fans first and foremost, and not Craig fans first and foremost. But they are a minority, as the majority of Craig fans are fans of Craig first and foremost and not Bond fans. And that, was my point.

Saying the majority of Craig fans are not true Bond fans is a generalised sweeping statement. The only Craig fans I know of are the ones that reside on other Bond forums, but most of them I would class as Bond fans first and foremost (ie. they were Bond fans BEFORE Craig was appointed in the role, and now enjoy Craig in the role too).

How can you accurately say that the majority of people who like Craig on Planet Earth are not true Bond fans? Have you visited every person on earth to ask them personally if they like Craig as Bond, and if they do, then ask them if they like any of the other Bond films? If you have done that, and most of them said `Yes, we do like Craig as Bond, and no we hate every other Bond film ever made', then fair enough. Your assesment of the majority of Craig fans on Planet Earth is 100% spot on.....but you must have used up a lot of air miles in the process.

If however, you are only going by family and friends, and what you read on the internet, then I'd say your comment was way off the mark.