Could Craig destroy the Bond franchise?

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:04 pm

carl stromberg wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger
The day after DC the Broccolis were suddenly ashamed of DAD –and the past 20 movies
That annoyed me Harvey. Eon and the CR/Craig enthusiasts (that's the best phrase I can come up with!) seemed to be saying "all other Bond films are terrible so we are gong to make some radical changes". Bond was popular. Brosnan was popular - he also had the now familiar "best Bond since Connery" nickname. Some people suggest that Bond was dead and Craig saved it. Nonsense!

I do feel Brozza has had unfair criticism. There are a number of Bond fans who used to praise Brozza, but now declare him the worst Bond ever.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:04 pm

carl stromberg wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger
The day after DC the Broccolis were suddenly ashamed of DAD –and the past 20 movies
That annoyed me Harvey. Eon and the CR/Craig enthusiasts (that's the best phrase I can come up with!)

Or you could simply say `Bond fans...'

Post by **Kristatos** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:04 pm

carl stromberg wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger
The day after DC the Broccolis were suddenly ashamed of DAD –and the past 20 movies
That annoyed me Harvey. Eon and the CR/Craig enthusiasts (that's the best phrase I can come up with!) seemed to be saying "all other Bond films are terrible so we are gong to make some radical changes". Bond was popular. Brosnan was popular - he also had the now familiar "best Bond since Connery" nickname. Some people suggest that Bond was dead and Craig saved it. Nonsense!

Yeah, Craig and CR annoyed me, but I am doubly annoyed by the whole mythology that has surrounded them. Whilst my comments about "Craigianity" are tongue-in-cheek, the Craig cult does have some of the trappings of a religion, namely a myth of the Fall (DAD) and a Redemption myth (Craig "saving" the franchise), which involve painting DAD as a critical and commercial failure, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:21 pm

Kristatos wrote:
carl stromberg wrote:
Harvey Wallbanger
The day after DC the Broccolis were suddenly ashamed of DAD –and the past 20 movies
That annoyed me Harvey. Eon and the CR/Craig enthusiasts (that's the best phrase I can come up with!) seemed to be saying "all other Bond films are terrible so we are gong to make some radical changes". Bond was popular. Brosnan was popular - he also had the now familiar "best Bond since Connery" nickname. Some people suggest that Bond was dead and Craig saved it. Nonsense!
Yeah, Craig and CR annoyed me, but I am doubly annoyed by the whole mythology that has surrounded them. Whilst my comments about "Craigianity" are tongue-in-cheek, the Craig cult does have some of the trappings of a religion, namely a myth of the Fall (DAD) and a Redemption myth (Craig "saving" the franchise), which involve painting DAD as a critical and commercial failure, despite all evidence to the contrary.

DAD may not have been a commercial failure, but it was, is, a critical failure.

Post by **Kristatos** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:27 pm

The Sweeney wrote:DAD may not have been a commercial failure, but it was, is, a critical failure.

"Was" and "is" aren't the same things. As I recall, DAD was well-received by both fans and critics on its initial release, but many of the people who said good things about it in 2002 have now decided that they hated it all along.

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:34 pm

Kristatos wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:DAD may not have been a commercial failure, but it was, is, a critical failure.
"Was" and "is" aren't the same things. As I recall, DAD was well-received by both fans and critics on its initial release, but many of the people who said good things about it in 2002 have now decided that they hated it all along.

It's so true. I agree with you Kristatos.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:51 pm

Kristatos wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:DAD may not have been a commercial failure, but it was, is, a critical failure.
"Was" and "is" aren't the same things. As I recall, DAD was well-received by both fans and critics on its initial release, but many of the people who said good things about it in 2002 have now decided that they hated it all along.

You must have read different reviews then, because I don't recall any reviews giving DAD the same level of praise that CR earned.

Post by **007** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:41 pm

I wouldn't pretend that Die Another Day got total universal acclaim but here are some quotes from several reviews;

Director Lee Tamahori (Once Were Warriors) infuses DAD with a visual energy uncommon to more traditional Bond entries. "Cranked" (accelerated) footage zooms us through lavish establishing shots with mindbending velocity. The graphic-intensive title sequence – a signature curiosity for all Bond endeavors – is actually a part of the film's narrative this time around, instead of standing alone as its predecessors have. The list of reinventions and adjustments goes on.

Die Another Day is a generally raw and invigorating thrill ride that should put an end to any scuttlebutt suggesting the franchise ought to be retired.

Pierce Brosnan may have arrived too late in the game to be the definitive James Bond, but he is by far the most sympathetic. His 007, in addition to the expected suavity and wit, also expresses fear, pain, indecision and longing. The credit sequence, in which Bond is beaten and tortured in a North Korean prison, is groundbreaking — one of the very few times the series has acknowledged its hero's vulnerability. And this makes his ultimate triumph, over a convoluted and sinister scheme involving diamonds, DNA and weather-altering satellites, all the more satisfying. Lee Tamahori is not a natural action director, especially in the large-scale chase and shootout sequences, and the climax, aboard a flaming jetliner, is more numbing than thrilling. Still, his intelligent approach to the characters makes this the best Bond picture in quite some time.

After 40 years and in his 20th film, James Bond deserves a kick in the noughties. Kiwi helmer Lee Tamahori provides it.

Sexy, funny and spectacular, Bond's first mission of the new millennium is one of the best of the series - not simply a great Bond movie, but a great Action movie, full stop. Yes, we were surprised too.

It's a throwback which recalls the heights of both "Goldfinger" and "Live and Let Die", combining the cool of Connery with the frivolity of Moore, without ever descending into parody.

Plus, it reinstates the childish wow-factor at outrageous gadgets (an invisible car!) and terrific stunts (including an all-time great sword fight), blasting the veteran franchise into the 21st century.

Bond is back and there's plenty of life in the old dog yet.

It's assured, wonderfully respectful of its past and thrilling enough to make it abundantly clear that this movie phenomenon has once again reinvented itself for a new generation, and is very likely to outlive us all.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:24 am

Search through a backlog of even the most dire films, and you will find positive reviews on any film, the same way negative ones on CR have been found on here.

But it doesn't give the accurate picture on the general, overall opinion on how it was received critically worldwide. It's fair to say CR was an overall critical success, DAD was not.

Post by **carl stromberg** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:08 am

I don't wish to sound like a Pierce Brosnan obsessive who but The Sweeney is being a bit unkind to Die Another Day. When it came out, it was a surprise hit. The British media - as usual for a James Bond film - gave it good reviews. James Bond was very popular; Brosnan was hailed as the best Bond since Connery.

As a James Bond fan, you must remember the reviews at the time? Of course people are raving about Casino Royale and many people seem to not like Die Another Die now; but to say that DAD received universally bad reviews when it came out is wrong.

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:47 am

Incorrect Carl, the daily express gave it a very mediocre review. And untill I actually saw the finished film I was thinking they must've made a mistake.
Of course there were more positive reviews. Even Empire gave it 3 out of 5 stars.

Post by **carl stromberg** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:28 am

Casino Royale received a few dud reviews from the UK newspapers - remember?

As Kristatos is fond of saying, anti-Craigers should not dispute that CR was a success and gained good reviews. You should do the same with Die Another Day!

Post by **The Sweeney** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:41 am

carl stromberg wrote:Casino Royale received a few dud reviews from the UK newspapers - remember?

As Kristatos is fond of saying, anti-Craigers should not dispute that CR was a success and gained good reviews. You should do the same with Die Another Day!

I still say DAD did not receive the same level of global praise that CR did.

Post by **James** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:54 pm

This is a review of Die Another Day from the MI6 forum in 2002:

Die Another Day is the best James Bond film ever made. I've watched it twenty times now in the cinema and I would say without hesitation that Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond ever. The best bit? The invisible Aston-Martin. Absolutely brilliant. 10/10 (Jet Set Willy)

Post by **Kristatos** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:27 pm

James wrote:This is a review of Die Another Day from the MI6 forum in 2002:

Die Another Day is the best James Bond film ever made. I've watched it twenty times now in the cinema and I would say without hesitation that Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond ever. The best bit? The invisible Aston-Martin. Absolutely brilliant. 10/10 (Jet Set Willy)

And what is Jet Set Willy saying in 2007? It wouldn't surprise me to find that he is now saying that DAD was a low point in the series' history and that we should thank Babs and her chapel hat pegs for giving us Craig instead.

stockslivevan · Post by **stockslivevan** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:38 am

James wrote:This is a review of Die Another Day from the MI6 forum in 2002:

Die Another Day is the best James Bond film ever made. I've watched it twenty times now in the cinema and I would say without hesitation that Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond ever. The best bit? The invisible Aston-Martin. Absolutely brilliant. 10/10 (Jet Set Willy)

It's got to be his alter ego... JSW's first post on MI6:
http://www.mi6forums.com/viewtopic.php? ... t=#3641340

One of us smells like a tart's handkerchief.

Drmaybe · Post by **Drmaybe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:02 am

Empire gave CR 4/5. It was a very positive review if memory serves.

Drmaybe · Post by **Drmaybe** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:23 am

I see on the BBC that Danial Craig and CR have won some prizes at the Empire awards. Those awards have always been a good barometer of the UK film goers feelings towards a franchise such as Bond. It certainly doesn't seem like DC has done any harm to bond at all. In fact the opposite. I enjoyed CR but do agree it was a little overated by some media outlets. I think it's a sign of the general affection for bond, that a good to very good bond film is hyped to be the best film ever. I can't help thinking that some of the members of this forum do look at the earlier films through rose tinted specs! It seems to me that bond has always evolved with the times, and CR had done a good job continuing this evolution. I thought i'd just put in my pennies worth!

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:54 am

James wrote:This is a review of Die Another Day from the MI6 forum in 2002:

Die Another Day is the best James Bond film ever made. I've watched it twenty times now in the cinema and I would say without hesitation that Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond ever. The best bit? The invisible Aston-Martin. Absolutely brilliant. 10/10 (Jet Set Willy)

According to Jet Set Willys profile on Mi6 he didn't join untill August 2005.
So this is just a wind up, or someones got the info wrong. Again.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:57 am

James wrote:This is a review of Die Another Day from the MI6 forum in 2002:

Die Another Day is the best James Bond film ever made. I've watched it twenty times now in the cinema and I would say without hesitation that Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond ever. The best bit? The invisible Aston-Martin. Absolutely brilliant. 10/10 (Jet Set Willy)

Yeah yeah yeah.

James knows full well my alter-ego on MI6, and what I think of DAD. I think it's his attempt at being humourous......