The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[bjmdds]

Hollywoodies portrayed Bourne as the good guy going after the evil USA government and Damon thoroughly enjoyed doing that. I too am fed up with heroes being deemed as unstable emotional entities. Why not have them ENJOY righting the wrongs of criminal society, instead of reflecting on their inner struggles to do what's correct? Superman should have been HAPPY to kill General Zod, instead, he felt guilty of killing him, and it will show in the sequel. At least Campbell in the Green Lantern had his hero enjoy killing Parallax, although his Green Lantern was also a conflicted and disturbed individual at heart. "In brightest day, in blackest night
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might
Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"

[John P. Drake]

Going rogue in the first place is treason.

Not when the agency or government you work for has become corrupt. That was established at the Nuremberg trials.

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I have a friend who knows all about these. When someone is being accused as a war criminal while he was just protecting his country from worms, that's what I call unfair. Treadstone, in the first Damon-Bourne movie, was an elite team of protectors. They HAD to kill Wombosi because he was posing as a huge threat to the security of the entire US, if not the western countries entirely, know what I mean?

It's been a long time since I saw the film, so my memory is somewhat hazy, but as I recall, Bourne was sent to kill Wombosi but failed in his mission, and was targeted for elimination himself as a way of removing the evidence. Under those circumstances, he really had no option but to go rogue in order to ensure his own survival.

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Conklin said that in the film, anyone could have killed Wombosi, he was trained to be invisible. But, no, he just followed his so-called emotions (wimping out, actually!) and let his target's men kill him just because he saw the children crawling all over their father, Wombosi himself. He had loads of ways to accomplish the mission, he COULD have taken him with him using force and lock the door behind, then deliver a bullet to the head! See how easy it was? And Treadstone was no conspiracy team but elite force of assassins trained by the CIA sent to terminate anything that poses a threat to the US Government. They always portray our country as evil! If the US is evil, then why not correcting the wrongs instead of keeping the misery going? The Bourne in the original trilogy was nothing like that. It was a down-the-earth patriotic spy story, and the main villain was Carlos The Jackal, not the entire USA.

[John P. Drake]

Hollywoodies portrayed Bourne as the good guy going after the evil USA government and Damon thoroughly enjoyed doing that. I too am fed up with heroes being deemed as unstable emotional entities. Why not have them ENJOY righting the wrongs of criminal society, instead of reflecting on their inner struggles to do what's correct? Superman should have been HAPPY to kill General Zod, instead, he felt guilty of killing him, and it will show in the sequel. At least Campbell in the Green Lantern had his hero enjoy killing Parallax, although his Green Lantern was also a conflicted and disturbed individual at heart. "In brightest day, in blackest night
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil's might
Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"

Well said, BJ!! Well said!! I have the same issues with Batman, as well. The Nolan Bat! Instead of being a HERO, he just struggles with his own self. I've seen Batman struggling, but not with his self, but the circumstances for a moment or two he was dragged in by his enemies. Take Under The Red Hood or The Killing Joke... two comics that had Batman in his most difficult situations... he didn't wimp out at all... but in the latter, he was half-defeated by The Joker when he starts laughing too. I feel the story was unfinished actually... Anyway, if the protagonist is suicidal, maniac, emo, despicable, disgusting, rogue, and any kind of a character that 'Holleh-woodz' is providing their products with like, then that's a victim. A total...utter...victim. A hero, no matter what it is, gets the job done. Disappears afterwards. Case closed. But, it's too hard for the people nowadays to understand that... They hate anything that is heroic and manly, rating it "very comic book-like"... twats!!

[Kristatos]

I haven't seen Man of Steel yet, and it's not really a priority for me, but I heard about him killing Zod, and most people complained that it was out of character for Superman to kill at all. And with good reason. A Superman who is "happy to kill" is a frankly terrifying thought. I know it's the wrong character, but "With great power comes great responsibility" is at the heart of the superhero genre. Without it, you're left with "Might makes right", the very quintessence of fascism.

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[John P. Drake]

"Happy to kill" is for people who are evil by nature. A hero just gets the job done. Doesn't feel sad about it, nor happy with it. Just does it and moves on. Like Kris mentioned, without the will of dispatching the evil, they all become fascists.

[Omega]

I haven't seen Man of Steel yet, and it's not really a priority for me, but I heard about him killing Zod, and most people complained that it was out of character for Superman to kill at all. And with good reason. A Superman who is "happy to kill" is a frankly terrifying thought. I know it's the wrong character, but "With great power comes great responsibility" is at the heart of the superhero genre. Without it, you're left with "Might makes right", the very quintessence of fascism.

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Man he cried after snapping the guys neck, I don't know what was more embarrassing his first kill begging Zod to stop, or him crying about it.

[Kristatos]

"Happy to kill" is for people who are evil by nature. A hero just gets the job done. Doesn't feel sad about it, nor happy with it. Just does it and moves on. Like Kris mentioned, without the will of dispatching the evil, they all become fascists.

That's not what I said. I said that "might makes right" was the essence of fascism. A being as powerful as Superman deciding who lives and who dies, accountable to nobody and above the law would be a fascist wet-dream.

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[John P. Drake]

"Happy to kill" is for people who are evil by nature. A hero just gets the job done. Doesn't feel sad about it, nor happy with it. Just does it and moves on. Like Kris mentioned, without the will of dispatching the evil, they all become fascists.

That's not what I said. I said that "might makes right" was the essence of fascism. A being as powerful as Superman deciding who lives and who dies, accountable to nobody and above the law would be a fascist wet-dream.

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Agreed, actually.

[Kristatos]

Agreed, actually.

I thought you probably would, and just to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone one here of being a fascist. I just wonder if those who didn't think Superman should feel any remorse for killing Zod have really though through the implications. Neil Gaiman once wrote a Miracleman story arc called The Golden Age in which Miracleman (nee Marvelman) and his fellow superhumans actually used their superpowers to eliminate crime, war, injustice and so on - for our own good, of course. Needless to say, it didn't end well.

[John P. Drake]

Agreed, actually.

I thought you probably would, and just to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone one here of being a fascist. I just wonder if those who didn't think Superman should feel any remorse for killing Zod have really though through the implications. Neil Gaiman once wrote a Miracleman story arc called The Golden Age in which Miracleman (nee Marvelman) and his fellow superhumans actually used their superpowers to eliminate crime, war, injustice and so on - for our own good, of course. Needless to say, it didn't end well.

Of course, sometimes things don't go to the right plan, sometimes there could be a lack of strategy, and potentially we were going to see that happening in Frank Miller's All Star Batman: Robin, the Wonder Boy comics, which was released in 10 issues but was left unfinished because Nolan fans hated it. My point is, the entire Justice League team had dozens of disagreements and hated each other. Shame we never saw what was going to happen next as we've seen Batman kicking Green Lantern's arse. Wonder Woman was going to be the next stop, I reckon, but we didn't see it... yet.

[bjmdds]

When good triumphs over evil the victor should rejoice in it. Do not read politics now into superheroes who triumph over evil and assume they should show remorse. Zod was evil and was threatening to kill other innocent people. Killing him was not a fascist act, it was justice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OToWrnzK3gw

[bjmdds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaJAFwfpekQ Cavill should just shut his mouth. He sounds like a buffoon here obviously propping up Affleck's role as Batman. FBF, this is an insult to the Bat trilogy. I won't pay a cent to see this garbage. Cavill will never be Bond either at this rate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G4Y8JtT1j0 (note: strong language parody)

[bjmdds]

The year 2015 is already almost being called the "Biggest Movie Year Ever," but we can't help but wonder if the highly anticipated "Avengers 2: Age of Ultron" movie will top films such as "Batman vs. Superman [Man of Steel 2], "Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 2," and "Star Wars Episode 7."

Collider.com offered some insight into these highly anticipated 2015 films, among others.

The website said that "Man of Steel 2" is "likely to be the can't-miss movie of July, and fan speculation is already at a fever pitch before a frame of footage has even been shot."

Fans are really itching to see a sneak peek photo of Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne/Batman, who is "older and wiser than Clark Kent and bears the scars of a seasoned crime fighter." Henry Cavill will reprise his role as Superman, while Zack Synder will direct and David S. Goyer will write the script for the July 17, 2015 movie.

"The Hunger Games: Catching Fire" has proved to be a huge hit when it came out on Nov. 22, right before Thanksgiving, so no doubt fans are waiting for the next movie, "Mockingjay Part 1," slated for release on Nov. 20, 2015. It will star Jennifer Lawrence, Josh Hutcherson, and Liam Hemsworth as the main characters Katniss, Peeta, and Gale. Francis Lawrence will direct and Danny Strong will write the script.

There's a whole 'lotta hype around "Star Wars Episode VII" as well, probably more than any of these movies. J.J. Abrams will direct the Disney and Lucasfilm project with producer Kathleen Kennedy on board to make the film more exciting than ever. Michael Arndt is working on the screenplay and John Williams is providing the score. Casting rumors reveal that Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher will reprise their roles as Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, and Princess Leia. The release date is Dec. 18, 2015.

Other highly anticipated movies of 2015 are "The Fantastic Four," "Ted 2," "Assassins Creed," "Terminator 5," "Independence Day 2," "Pirates of the Caribbean 5," "Ant-Man," "Bond 24," "Finding Dory," "Kung-Fu Panda 3," and "Jurassic Park IV."

Directed by Joss Whedon, "Avengers: Age of Ultron" will release in theaters on May 1, 2015. It stars all the original Avengers actors, plus James Spader as the new villain and Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Quicksilver and Elizabeth Olsen as his twin sister Scarlet Witch. Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow is said to be "a huge part" of the sequel.

Do you think any of these other movies will outshine "Avengers 2" in 2015?

[John P. Drake]

When good triumphs over evil the victor should rejoice in it. Do not read politics now into superheroes who triumph over evil and assume they should show remorse. Zod was evil and was threatening to kill other innocent people. Killing him was not a fascist act, it was justice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OToWrnzK3gw

Of course, it's justice. Showing remorse is a terrible thing. In fact, you should feel nothing about it. Imagine if the fire in the fireplace gives you a little bit too heat, wouldn't you just turn it off? Do you feel anything if you turn it off aside peace? Of course not. Zod was the overheating fire, and Superman was the one who should turned it off. Every threat needs to be eliminated at once. Keeping the evil alive will just delay the inevitable chaos, they don't learn.

[Kristatos]

When good triumphs over evil the victor should rejoice in it. Do not read politics now into superheroes who triumph over evil and assume they should show remorse. Zod was evil and was threatening to kill other innocent people. Killing him was not a fascist act, it was justice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OToWrnzK3gw

Superman has never been a killer. It goes against 75 years of the character's history. I can't comment on this particular case, as I haven't seen the film, but on principle, it seems like a redefinition of the character that's as radical as turning Bond into a thug.

[bjmdds]

Look at the video link above. He had to kill Zod. Christopher Reeve killed Zod in 1980 first crushing his hand and then tossing him into the abyss in the fortress of solitude.

[John P. Drake]

Look at the video link above. He had to kill Zod. Christopher Reeve killed Zod in 1980 first crushing his hand and then tossing him into the abyss in the fortress of solitude.

Because Reeves played SUPERMAN, not Christopher Nolan wimp.

[bjmdds]

Drakester, do you want to bet that Affleck's Batman has a drinking problem and sees a psychiatrist in the Man Of Steel sequel? How can Batman fight Superman?

[Kristatos]

Look at the video link above. He had to kill Zod. Christopher Reeve killed Zod in 1980 first crushing his hand and then tossing him into the abyss in the fortress of solitude.

I haven't seen the Donner cut, but I read that it contains a shot explicitly showing that Zod & co didn't die, but were merely thrown into the water.

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[Omega]

Agreed, actually.

I thought you probably would, and just to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone one here of being a fascist. I just wonder if those who didn't think Superman should feel any remorse for killing Zod have really though through the implications. Neil Gaiman once wrote a Miracleman story arc called The Golden Age in which Miracleman (nee Marvelman) and his fellow superhumans actually used their superpowers to eliminate crime, war, injustice and so on - for our own good, of course. Needless to say, it didn't end well.

I'm just saying the image some people have of new superman killing Zod is way off. He's in a classic no choice situation. His crying about it redeems it for some keeping from being too different from the old comic books.

But I always thought the never kills was over done if you throw a guy through a building somebody is probable going to be killed even if by some miracle the bad guy in as indestructible as superman


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