What Kind of Film Character is Bond?

[Kristatos]

I'd update to a cd myself.

Nobody's forcing you to listen.

[Captain Nash]

But I do so enjoy the music here.

[Skywalker]

A Bond who thinks twice before jumping off a crane

Shame he didn't think twice about climbing it.

Bond who looks slightly uneasy, a blunt instrument

Agreed.

[The Sweeney]

blonde hair, and no personality.

The Bond of the novels wasn't exactly a bundle of laughs either, so no personality fits the bill perfectly.

[James]

a Bond who thinks twice before jumping off a crane

CR had a schizophrenic quality. The film was essentially trying to burn the candle at both ends. It didn't work for me as a popcorn experience or as a more 'worthy' Bond entry. It just fell somewhere inbetween the two and sank.

[Skywalker]

The film was essentially trying to burn the candle at both ends. It didn't work for me as a popcorn experience or as a more 'worthy' Bond entry. It just fell somewhere inbetween the two and sank.

I agree with you James. It was a poor attempt to mix two different types of genre.

[The Sweeney]

a Bond who thinks twice before jumping off a crane

CR had a schizophrenic quality. The film was essentially trying to burn the candle at both ends. It didn't work for me as a popcorn experience or as a more 'worthy' Bond entry. It just fell somewhere inbetween the two and sank.

I can understand why people think this. Out of all the many arguments vented by the anti-Craigers, this is probably the one I can most relate to.

The film certainly does have a `2 part' feel to it, where we see Craig perform miraculous stunts in the first part, and in the second part he has trouble coming to terms with a fight he has just had with 2 men on a staircase.

I think the action sequences in the first half are the problem, not the more realistic approach in the second half. That's just my opinion anyway.

Having said that, this disjointed approach is still very subtle when compared to other Bond films that have attempted this mix (all the Brosnan ones for example). And fortunately I enjoyed the film overall so much, this never really caused me a problem.

[Captain Nash]

Some interesting thoughts being bandied around here, and for once a worthy discussion seems to be growing from it.
As The Sweeney was saying the film does feel like it's in two parts, the action of the first act. Up untill M sends Bond to Montenegro, and then the second act. The poker game and the finale.
I see it like this, in the first half of the film, act 1, Bond has been given his OO, hes eager, and makes mistakes. His adrenalin and inpatience or driving force get the better of him. It's him alone.
But after the stairwell fight it affects Vesper. Someone from outside the cold blooded killing. A seemingly innocent woman brought into his world. And Bond feels bad for this. The realisation strikes him. The real nature of what he does and what he's done hits him.
The latter shower scene shows us that this Bond has a human side (not saying any of the others didn't) but he understands what has happened, and feels bad for it. He's realised his world is different to Vespers, and shows compassion. All the Bond actors have done this in one or more of there films. It's good to have this kind of scene in Bond films from time to time, I feel.
Doesn't have to be in every film, but once in a while we need to be reminded what a lonely job he has. It brings more depth to the character, and it was one of the reasons I enjoyed Casino Royale.

[Skywalker]

Some interesting thoughts being bandied around here, and for once a worthy discussion seems to be growing from it.
As The Sweeney was saying the film does feel like it's in two parts, the action of the first act. Up untill M sends Bond to Montenegro, and then the second act. The poker game and the finale.
I see it like this, in the first half of the film, act 1, Bond has been given his OO, hes eager, and makes mistakes. His adrenalin and inpatience or driving force get the better of him. It's him alone.
But after the stairwell fight it affects Vesper. Someone from outside the cold blooded killing. A seemingly innocent woman brought into his world. And Bond feels bad for this. The realisation strikes him. The real nature of what he does and what he's done hits him.
The latter shower scene shows us that this Bond has a human side (not saying any of the others didn't) but he understands what has happened, and feels bad for it. He's realised his world is different to Vespers, and shows compassion. All the Bond actors have done this in one or more of there films. It's good to have this kind of scene in Bond films from time to time, I feel.
Doesn't have to be in every film, but once in a while we need to be reminded what a lonely job he has. It brings more depth to the character, and it was one of the reasons I enjoyed Casino Royale.

A nice summary there Nash. Well thought out and you've backed up your opinion.

[Captain Nash]

Sometimes we agree eh?
Not always but there are moments.

[Jedi007]

And yes, Bond was egotistical, and he was also arrogant in the novels.

Really? Then since it seems to me that you're the Fleming know-it-all here, why not post a couple of pages from your Fleming books that shows Bond as arrogant and egotistic. Oh, and I also want a scene where it shows Bond crashing through a wall, driving a bulldozer through a construction site filled with workers, and attacking an embassy.

a Bond who stares himself in the mirror, reflecting after killing 2 men, bloodied and drinking a glass of bourbon

I thought Bond here wasn't bothered killing people.

a Bond who physically looks menacing, looks threatening, looks like he could kill.

As if that 'killer look' could pass off as a spy acting as Universal Exports businessman. It is actually more believable if he would try to play a crime boss bodyguard.

`B...b...but he has blonde hair?'

And looks like Gottfried John. Andreas Wisniewski and Götz Otto were even better looking than him.

[Captain Nash]

`B...b...but he has blonde hair?'

And looks like Gottfried John. Andreas Wisniewski and Götz Otto were even better looking than him.

Got a thing for blonde men do we Jedi.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Jedi007]

Got a thing for blonde men do we Jedi.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

That two played a Red Grant type villain. I am just saying that Craig is much suited in that role than playing Bond.

[Captain Nash]

Again I disagree, but hey ho.

[The Sweeney]

And yes, Bond was egotistical, and he was also arrogant in the novels.

Really? Then since it seems to me that you're the Fleming know-it-all here, why not post a couple of pages from your Fleming books that shows Bond as arrogant and egotistic.

Nope. I can't be bothered. Either take my word for it, or read the novels yourself to find out if I am lying.

Oh, and I also want a scene where it shows Bond crashing through a wall, driving a bulldozer through a construction site filled with workers, and attacking an embassy.

There is no scene like this in the Fleming novels. There again, every single Bond film has scenes that are not from the Fleming novels (yes, even FRWL and OHMSS...shock horror!! )

I thought Bond here wasn't bothered killing people.

You obviously interpreted the scene different to me then. Check out his reaction after the bathroom scene in the pre credits too.

As if that 'killer look' could pass off as a spy acting as Universal Exports businessman. It is actually more believable if he would try to play a crime boss bodyguard.

So are you saying Bond never looked dangerous, menacing, threatening in the novels then.......

[Jedi007]

There is no scene like this in the Fleming novels. There again, every single Bond film has scenes that are not from the Fleming novels (yes, even FRWL and OHMSS...shock horror!! )

You've hit it, Sweeney! Bingo! Bravo! (There' should be a clapping emoticon here). No Bond films has been truly faithful to the Fleming novels. So how come CR's better than the other? Why do the known cinematic elements needed to be discarded when the real Fleminguesque Bond cannot be brought unto the screen? Why the total continuity reboot crap when really unnecessary and doesn't really make any sense at all?

So are you saying Bond never looked dangerous, menacing, threatening in the novels then.......

He looks like a scary monster then.

[Captain Nash]

No Bond films has been truly faithful to the Fleming novels. So how come CR's better than the other?

No-ones trying to say it is.

Why do the known cinematic elements needed to be discarded when the real Fleminguesque Bond cannot be brought unto the screen?

Why can't a portion of the Bond of the novels be mixed with that of the films?

Why the total continuity reboot crap when really unnecessary and doesn't really make any sense at all?

Ask Eon, it works for me, but they make the choices, I just watch the films and enjoy them.

[The Sweeney]

There is no scene like this in the Fleming novels. There again, every single Bond film has scenes that are not from the Fleming novels (yes, even FRWL and OHMSS...shock horror!! )

You've hit it, Sweeney! Bingo! Bravo! (There' should be a clapping emoticon here). No Bond films has been truly faithful to the Fleming novels. So how come CR's better than the other?

Who is really saying that. Most are saying it is the best Fleming adaptation since OHMSS and FRWL, which are equally great films.

Why do the known cinematic elements needed to be discarded when the real Fleminguesque Bond cannot be brought unto the screen?

How about a mixture of the two, which most Bond films have (yes, even CR).

Why the total continuity reboot crap when really unnecessary and doesn't really make any sense at all?

Because CR was the first Fleming novel, where Bond is at the start of his career and makes mistakes. To ignore this is ignoring the essence of the novel itself.

He looks like a scary monster then.

No, just dangerous, menacing and threatening. Or does that make him a big scary monster in your eyes......?

[Jedi007]

May I ask you, Is Bond really just starting his career in the real Casino Royale and make dumb mistakes?

[The Sweeney]

May I ask you, Is Bond really just starting his career in the real Casino Royale and make dumb mistakes?

I take it you haven't read the novel then......