The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Omega]

I have the last part as: we will miss.

I didn't know that about Paul Newman either. Mel Gibson is someone who never looked short until his recent movies. Glover is 6'3 1/2" Mel is 5 9. I think Edge of Darkness was one of the first time I noticed how short he was compared to other actors on screen with him.

For Bond it is embarrassing. Mostly becuase they image of Bond doesn't allow for shoelifts. James Marsden 5' 10" in X-men had to wear lifts and he was embarrassed because he was never considered short in his life, next to Famke Janssen 6' and Hugh Jackman 6' 2" he was.

[Alessandra]

Short actors are never EVER shown next to tall people in a way that gives it away if the script requires them to look, well, tall. For example, Paul Newman, short, wasn't often filmed next to Robert Redford, tall, in a way that gave it away how taller Redford was than him. The just always got round it. And when he kissed actresses, well it's a close-up, so you can't see what's happening below!

Interesting Ale. I never knew that about Newman.
Redford is my favourite actor, BTW....

Redford......good actor.........i thought one of his best films, was 'Brubaker'

EA

Sweeney, Newman never really hid the fact he was short, but of course when they film they don't want anyone to look short, especially if they're the leading man... I think it really shows in "The Color of Money" where Newman is well.. certainly not taller than Tom Cruise (who is notably short). I am at a loss for words with the heights listed on IMDB. Newman is listed as TALLER than Redford, in what galaxy? Newman is listed at 5' 9'' and 1/2 and Redford at 5' 9''. No way, I've seen Redford in person and he is around 6 ft or taller. It's really unsettling how they change and redo things when height is concerned. What's the point? Bizarre.

I adore Robert Redford. Always have, always will. One of my all-time favorites together with Cary Grant, Paul Newman of course, William Holden, Rex Harrison... ah, classic Hollywood. Sigh.

Brubaker is certainly a great movie, albeit a bit dark for me, I prefer "Barefoot in the Park", "The Way We Were" among the oldies and of course "All the President's Men" and "Three Days of the Condor" are my faves of the "golden era" I very much like some of his more recent ones, too. Too many to list!

BTW, next one who so much as names Tom Hardy next to the words "James Bond" is gonna be redirected HERE: http://socialitelife.com/tom-hardys-mys ... 1232011-05 That photo clearly makes my point. Of course he's in better shape now, but he's someone who doesn't even know the meaning of "charm" and "class". Good to be a gladiator, but absolutely not to be Bond.

[katied]

Take everything at IMDB with a big grain of salt..especially the personal info!

[Alessandra]

Anyway... lo so che scherzi, ci mancherebbe. (ha, learn this one... I'll explain)

I typed in the phrase above into the 'Bat computer' and the computer said 'No' (where have i heard that before?)

The nearest translation i got was 'I know that joke, was lacking' not very clear is it...........am learning Italian not Klingon!

So.............what does it mean in English?

Back to Bond, I presume you've seen a Bond film in Italian. How do the dubbed / translated voices come over, do they enhance or hinder the films, compared to when you've seen them in English.

No need to rush to answer!

EA

Ha, I knew you would try some translator but that really is an idiomatic expression that has no equivalent in the English language. It's a way of saying "but of course!" The verb "mancare" means to lack, but that expression isn't really used to stress anything like that. "Ci mancherebbe" is something you say also when you want to say "not at all". "Grazie" reply: "Ma ci mancherebbe! E' un piacere!". See, I just taught you a VERY Italian expression that you probably would never have learnt in class

I didn't know that about Paul Newman either. Mel Gibson is someone who never looked short until his recent movies. Glover is 6'3 1/2" Mel is 5 9. I think Edge of Darkness was one of the first time I noticed how short he was compared to other actors on screen with him.

For Bond it is embarrassing. Mostly becuase they image of Bond doesn't allow for shoelifts. James Marsden 5' 10" in X-men had to wear lifts and he was embarrassed because he was never considered short in his life, next to Famke Janssen 6' and Hugh Jackman 6' 2" he was.

Oh hell yeah, Mel Gibson is definitely on the not tall side. Again, the trick is very simple: look at the legs. Those give away whether one is tall or short immediately! Especially for a man, since there are no high heels to conceal it

James Marsden isn't very tall for sure, but next to Famke Janssen and Hugh Jackman he pretty much looks like a dwarf. I think his character in the movie is supposed to look bigger than them right? So that's why he had to wear shoelifts.

Thing is, certain roles require the actor to be tall, others don't necessarily require that. I do agree Bond is supposed to be tall... but, I think height is the one thing they can easily get around with by using various filming "tricks". Still, better to be naturally tall, of course.

EA, about the dubbed Bonds.

Of course I've seen many dubbed Bonds, especially the old ones. And what do you think you see at the movies here? If I go to the cinema (which I have done up until DAD) you can ONLY see the movie dubbed. Which is a disgrace.

Thankfully, they always picked a dubber with a great voice for Bond. BUT, it's gotten worse over time. Dubbers nowadays aren't NEARLY as good as they used to be. They don't put the same effort in things, and I have to say of course the fact that meantime (well, from High School on, really) I started speaking English fluently didn't help matters much. I hate dubbed stuff now, never watch it. And I notice how much the actor's job is ruined by dubbing. No matter how good the person who dubs is, it's never as good as the original, especially nowadays. Back in time, when Sir Sean was Bond, they used to be MUCH better, and the Italian version was basically almost as good as the English one. But now? Not really. All of Connery's 007 movies were dubbed by Pino Locchi, one of the most famous Italian dubbers, and a great one at that.

If you're curious.. here it is (lol please don't tell MGM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOlbrSHN ... re=related

Pino Locchi also dubbed Roger Moore in all his Bond movies.

ETA: Brosnan and Dalton also had very big names dubbing them as Bond. Brosnan was always dubbed by Luca Ward, another very famous Italian dubber, Dalton by Michele Gammino, also a famous dubber (with a great, deep voice, much like Ward) . Craig hasn't been that lucky. He is dubbed by Francesco Prando, who just isn't nearly as big a name as the others (Locchi and Ward especially). He also has a far less "full" voice. I have no idea why they changed, normally they tend to keep the same dubber for the same character, (like they did with Connery and Moore. Then Locchi became too old so he had to be replaced from the Dalton movies on). This one they use for Craig is just not as good as the others. I hope they keep on changing at this point, because Bond #7 needs a better voice than this.

Just so you can compare (even though I realise voices sound all the same to a foreigner, but anyway)

This is Brosnan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-UDBt7B ... re=related

I can't find a video for Dalton! But his dubber's voice was similar to Brosnan's... very deep voice.

And Craig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I_2OgLOO7A

[English Agent]

Thanks 'Ale'

Another long post.........that must of taken time to compose!

The 'YOU TUBE' clips were interesting to see how Bond has been dubbed into Italian, they seem to speak incredibly quickly!

When i've seen the early Connery Bonds, quite a few of the foreign actors and actresses were dubbed by english actors, and i thought the choice of voices was very good,
i.e Gert Frobe in Goldfinger and Adolfo Celi in Thunderball, they sounded very menacing and authoritive, yet when i've heard their own natural voices they sounded weaker. I imagine Claudine Auger and Lucianna Paluzzi voices were also dubbed in Thunderball.

Also thanks for the Italian tip, though i probably won't remember it.

Ciao

EA

[bjmdds]

I have never met Daniel Craig, and if i had met him I wouldn't admit it.

Finally the Captain has arrived! I have tried for the longest time to lure you away from MI6 and I hope you make THIS forum your home for you will be appreciated here!

[English Agent]

''BJ' ......... when i was posting at 'MI6' a few years ago, i seem to remember a poster there called 'Charles Vine' who had similar views to you, and you both seemed to take on the rest of the posters there with their opposing views.
Does he still post there or does he post here under another name? Just curious.

EA

[bjmdds]

I am not sure what became of him EA. I rarely even look at MI6 any more. THIS is the place to be and I am glad to see you are here now. Keep up the posts EA.

[katied]

I wonder of You Only Live Thrice still posts there? I think he realized that his constant changing his mind about Craig annoyed people.

[bjmdds]

I really could not say. That place is yesterday's news MP and we all know it.

[English Agent]

I wonder of You Only Live Thrice still posts there? I think he realized that his constant changing his mind about Craig annoyed people.

I remember 'You Only Live Thrice', the poor lad was picked on mercilessly, but he seemed to take it well, and then would come back with another hilarious post, only to be attacked again.
I seem to remember, that he once posted saying he was deaf.

Anyway, he wrote some very unusual posts which were very amusing.........i think people liked him really.

EA

[Captain Nash]

I have never met Daniel Craig, and if i had met him I wouldn't admit it.

Finally the Captain has arrived! I have tried for the longest time to lure you away from MI6 and I hope you make THIS forum your home for you will be appreciated here!

I really could not say. That place is yesterday's news MP and we all know it.

Yet it STILL irks you, that they didn't give you your own way.
And you STILL harp on about it.
Why not let it go?

[Alessandra]

I have never met Daniel Craig, and if i had met him I wouldn't admit it.

Finally the Captain has arrived! I have tried for the longest time to lure you away from MI6 and I hope you make THIS forum your home for you will be appreciated here!

Ahaaa! I had no idea we had a prestigious newcomer that BJ himself lured here I guess I should say "at your service, Captain"?

EA, Adolfo Celi wasn't dubbed, he dubbed himself. He did have a threatening, big voice. The other actresses, I'm sure, were dubbed. I doubt Paluzzi spoke English. Giancarlo Giannini, like Celi, speaks English so he isn't dubbed either. It changes from one actor to another, depending on whether they can speak English well enough or not

We're lucky to have this place to post, regardless of what happened on the "general boards". There are good places to post (and AJB is certainly way better than the other two) but this... well this one is just special

[katied]

I wonder of You Only Live Thrice still posts there? I think he realized that his constant changing his mind about Craig annoyed people.

I remember 'You Only Live Thrice', the poor lad was picked on mercilessly, but he seemed to take it well, and then would come back with another hilarious post, only to be attacked again.
I seem to remember, that he once posted saying he was deaf.

Anyway, he wrote some very unusual posts which were very amusing.........i think people liked him really.

EA

I seem to remember him using his deafness as his excuse for his attitude. Which didn't wash with me because my nephew is deaf and does fine and is not pissed off at the world because of it.

[Captain Nash]

I often read comments saying how the Bond films have gone down hill since the passing of Cubby Broccoli, and the new producers of the Bond films Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson seem to take alot of flack (sometimes justified) for not only the reboot, but also changing and experimenting with new styles, directors and stories.
But it dawned on me. Was Cubby's vision of Bond always great?
Were the Cubby films really void of mistakes, bad ideas and the like.
Starting with The Spy Who Loved Me and going through untill GoldenEye, I decided to look at some of the mistakes, bad ideas (imo, and sometimes terrible) from the Cubby produced movies.

TSWLM - Is a remake of YOLT, albeit a better one than the former imo. Apart from that, Spy is solid entertainment, and highly enjoyable.

MR - The return of Jaws is a mistake. Especially here http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_021.htm. Whoever decided that Jaws should flap his arms should be fired.
The Bondola chase starting with this http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_208.htm and ending with this http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_229.htm is another mistake.
This http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_489.htm needs no explanation. It's just a bad idea.
As much entertainment can be found in MR, and it really is a good Bond film, underneath the fantasy, but things like Bond venturing into space are pushing the limits to far. http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_743.htm http://screenmusings.org/Moonraker/pages/Mnrkr_812.htm During publicity for MR Cubby often promoted the film as not science fiction, but science fact.
Don't think so somehow,

FYEO - The pts, though very well staged, and seemingly putting Blofeld to bed finally, was a bad idea.http://screenmusings.org/ForYourEyesOnl ... O_0049.htm The 'stainless steel delicatessen' line was attributed to Cubby. Only funny to a handful of people it would seem.
Apart from that, Eyes Only is pretty much solid, and devoid of the silly ideas.

OP - The Tuk-tuk chase is again a moment when a bad idea got through. Especially with the inclusion of this http://screenmusings.org/Octopussy/pages/Oct_247.htm
The jungle hunt isn't terrible, but could lose http://screenmusings.org/Octopussy/pages/Oct_428.htm scenes like this, or the Tarzan swing.
Bond wearing the monkey suit whilst on the train is another low point.

AVTAK - Allowing 'California Girls' to be played during the pts http://screenmusings.org/AViewToAKill/p ... aK_011.htm
As much as I love Roger Moore, this film was probably one too many. Especially when this http://screenmusings.org/AViewToAKill/p ... aK_100.htm is what we get to save the world.
Anything involving this http://screenmusings.org/AViewToAKill/p ... aK_607.htm and ending with this http://screenmusings.org/AViewToAKill/p ... aK_638.htm is a bad idea.


I'll continue this later, but I'm sure the basic idea, that the current state of Bond, and how EON run the series, isn't something new and alarming. Considering Cubby allowed all of the above into the films he produced.
Yes the films are spectacular entertainment. And maybe some of the more recent ones could use a boost in the humour department. But some of the things I've mentioned above were all okay with Cubby.
And this is not a bash Cubby discussion. Merely looking back at some of his choices, that are more than to be desired at times.
No doubt at all that all the Bond films in my mind are 100% excellent entertainment.
TBC...

[Blowfeld]

I could point out a few similar instances, however Cubby Broccoli kept the movies coming (TSWLM - GE ) and the quality stayed consistent. There are problems but those problems generally didn't kept the movies form being enjoyable. He understood Bond was the one constant of the series as a fundamental driving force with the rest of it changing around him. After he died EON seemed rudderless uncertain of where they should go with the series. DAD had a lot of the MGW touches from last 30 years. There wasn't the assured feeling of the series was in good hands after Cubby's passing, we had an excellent Bond on all levels for the fist time in many years a Bond drew together the most successful aspects of the mvoies in one persona. On the other hand Barbara and Michael while not completely without talent seemed they were in over there heads trying to keep Bond going. MGW was tired after all he had done this job most of his life, while Barbara appeared to be mainly interested in other projects. I think Cubby relished the challenge and understood the unique place Bond had in society, good or bad he kept the movies coming and kept them entertaining. EON needs fresh people with a new vision to try to compete with the legacy Cubby left us.

BTW I would put Joe Don Baker TLD to the list of infamy

[English Agent]

EON needs fresh people with a new vision to try to compete with the legacy Cubby left us.

What i think EON needs foremost are new writers, i mean some of the stories(?) from Purvis and Wade have been pretty weak, yet they keep going back to these guys.

I know its very difficult to come up with new ideas, but the story is probably the most important aspect to a films success.

QOS failed in this dept' as the story was weak and very dull.

EA

[Thunderpussy]

I agree Cpt Nash,There have been some cringe worthy moments in the series But I think English Agent is right, They need better writers the plot of QOS was P*** Poor. With No villains of Note.In their Rush to Copy the Bourne style they've thrown out a lot of what makes Bond, Bond.

[Kristatos]

They need better writers the plot of QOS was P*** Poor.

But QOS used very little of Purvis and Wade's script. I know I keep defending them, but that's not because I think they're the greatest writers ever, it just seems to me that they've become the whipping boys for criticisms of other writers' work. For example, I saw a comment on another Bond board that used act 3 of CR as proof of what terrible writers they were, seemingly unaware that act 3 was almost all Haggis.

[English Agent]

They need better writers the plot of QOS was P*** Poor.

But QOS used very little of Purvis and Wade's script. I know I keep defending them, but that's not because I think they're the greatest writers ever, it just seems to me that they've become the whipping boys for criticisms of other writers' work. For example, I saw a comment on another Bond board that used act 3 of CR as proof of what terrible writers they were, seemingly unaware that act 3 was almost all Haggis.

'Kris....' i know that other writers come in to polish up the scripts, but Wade and Purvis seem to be the main guys who start the ball rolling on new storylines.
I was merely suggesting that EON at least try some other people, that way they can get some suggestions and views from people with a different insight.

EA