US Election 2008

[Dr. Joseph]

Some good reading on the subject

The Great Healthcare Robbery
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/03/05/the- ... e-robbery/

FACT CHECK: Obama approach at odds with past views
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD9E83P3O0

Advice to House: Don't Take Any Obama Wooden Nickels
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

Polls Turn Against Obama Health Care Plan
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/pu ... 0705.shtml

[Kristatos]

The dems are trying to pull a fast one, Obama got to where he is because he isn't listening to the American people, he is doing his agenda and don't give a d**n if we want it or . I'll never forgive him for that. He thinks he can make a few more speeches run a few ads and well "get our minds right". What We wanted was real change and we got half assed attempt at holding up the status quo and more working hand in hand with the big business bleeding us dry.

Well, quite. I don't think it is his agenda, though, at least not originally. The reason I preferred him to Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries is precisely because he opposed a universal mandate while Clinton supported one. The lobbyists seem to have got to him approximately 0.006 milliseconds after he was elected. Candidate Obama was so much more impressive than President Obama. It even gave an old cynic like me some hope that things might change, and I remember the election of the equally disappointing Tony Blair (and should therefore know better).

[Kristatos]

Some good reading on the subject

And some more, from the always entertaining (but not for the the faint of heart) Matt Taibbi at Rolling Stone:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... _for_obama

[bjmdds]

Insurance companies should not be allowed to raise rates higher than the rate of inflation. They all cry poverty and the states grant their increases. That is fraud. Let them invest the premiums wisely instead of losing it in mutual funds, real estate deals, or wherever else they invest it in. When the 1990s fraudulent stock market boomed, they kept premiums lower, much lower, as their investments soared. Now, there are fewer investments options for them with huge returns so they suck the profit from those who purchase the insurance now. We need regulatory reform, malpractice reform, price regulations of medical care, as well as union concessions in hospitals. NONE of this involves adding a dime to our debt and no expansion of medicaire for all. Think of this; a transplant can cost $250,000 dollars? For what? The donated organ is free, the surgery takes 4-5 hours, and then the recovery in a hospital room for 1 week. A fair fee would be $10,000 to the doctor, and $40,000 to the hospital for all care. This is the kind of reform we need, a price restructuring reform with a law passed capping the expense allowed for these procedures/hospital stays. You could drive down costs dramatically this way and also limit ANY lawyer to a $250,000 fee for pushing papers and interviewing people, instead of the 1/3 contingency fee they take on a multi-million dollar verdict. Also, we must determine a cap on pain and suffering in a real malpractice case, at about $500,000 plus the cost of future aid/treatments the injured person will require. You cannot have juries doling out $100 million settlements like it was candy. Do these simple things, and premiums would be at least 30-40% less.

[Dr. No]

The dems are trying to pull a fast one, Obama got to where he is because he isn't listening to the American people, he is doing his agenda and don't give a d**n if we want it or . I'll never forgive him for that. He thinks he can make a few more speeches run a few ads and well "get our minds right". What We wanted was real change and we got half assed attempt at holding up the status quo and more working hand in hand with the big business bleeding us dry.

Well, quite. I don't think it is his agenda, though, at least not originally. The reason I preferred him to Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries is precisely because he opposed a universal mandate while Clinton supported one. The lobbyists seem to have got to him approximately 0.006 milliseconds after he was elected. Candidate Obama was so much more impressive than President Obama. It even gave an old cynic like me some hope that things might change, and I remember the election of the equally disappointing Tony Blair (and should therefore know better).

If it is not his agenda I am lost to why he is pushing this dead horse through the starting gates.

I don't know what happened to him. Maybe he was too inexperience to stand on his own two feet. He had everything handed to him and could have done anything he wanted and he flushed it away. Maybe again it was too soon from him to rise to such power.

I have family in the health care industry, I know the problems and have seen the horror stories and we really do need to fix it but this bill will make things worse. The people who are part of teh problems and should be part of the solution are left as they are or given more power, only because they are the friends of the dems. Not that the republican are much better this time the dems are bead with the devil telling how nice a guy he is. That used to be DIck Cheney's job.

What we need is a true uninterested party to help us overwrite the health care system, too much money involved for the dems and repubs to be a fair broker for the American people.

[Kristatos]

If it is not his agenda I am lost to why he is pushing this dead horse through the starting gates.

There are two theories, both equally plausible:

1) He's been seduced by the dark side, succumbing to the blandishments of smooth-talking lobbyists; or
2) He's a prisoner of his own belief in bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle, prepared to sacrifice any principle if it means getting even one Republican vote (hence Rep. Alan Grayson's caustic comment that "nobody elected Olympia Snowe President of the United States").

I have to say, I find 2 more plausible. Obama is already President, for God's sake, it's hard to know what else the lobbyists could offer him, except an easier ride in 2012. Unless they're blackmailing him by threatening to release a copy of his Kenyan birth certificate (I keed, I keed).

[bjmdds]

He wants Republicans on board Kris for one thing, and one thing only;when the policy fails he has no one else to blame but his own party. That is the only reason he wants Republicans on board. He is scared to death now about going it unilaterally with Pelosi and Reid. Do not delude yourself into thinking this crumb has decency. He is a Chicago political thug whose socialistic agenda will fail, and fail miserably. First Congress in 8 months, then we fumigate the liberal stench out of the White House in 2012. He's going down Kris, no 'bout a doubt it'.

[Kristatos]

He is scared to death now about going it unilaterally with Pelosi and Reid. Do not delude yourself into thinking this crumb has decency. He is a Chicago political thug whose socialistic agenda will fail, and fail miserably. First Congress in 8 months, then we fumigate the liberal stench out of the White House in 2012. He's going down Kris, no 'bout a doubt it'.

It's certainly starting to look that way. Once again, the corporations win and the American people lose. That's why I quit the USA for a country where you don't have to be rich to get healthcare - I could see the writing on the wall. He is indeed scared to death (and sadly not the "Chicago political thug" the American people thought they were voting for, someone who would fight like a wildcat for their interests rather than those of the wealthiest 0.1% of the population). He needs to remember that the American people WANT a radical agenda, that's why they voted for him in a landslide. If he loses in November and again in 2012, it will be because of his own timidity, not because the inbred rednecks of the Tea Party are in any way representative of public opinion, whatever the corporate media would like you to believe. That's what happens when you throw your own base under the bus in order to make nice with an implacable opposition. Your voters get demoralised and stay home while the 25-30% of the population who still think George W. Bush was a good President remain as energised as they ever were.

[Dr. No]

I don't know how redneck teh tea parties are, some of them I know are life long democrats and will not be going GOP despite what the GOP thinks. Myself I don't care to join parties or to go to things like that.

It is a shame when the radical thing is doing teh right thing and damning the consequences. We can make health care work for everyone but we have to cut the fat and make enemies, not the dems or gop will risk it. Obama got in to bed early with big pharma and the insurance company. I am not sure what he was after but what he has doing is bail out the insurance industry and give them more power instead of holding their feets to the fire. Making it a law the 30 million people have to buy health insurance is crazy, it be like saying I made it against the law not to own a home so there is no homeless problem.

I think america is one of teh greatest countries on earth, we have problems, our biggest problem is the politicians intent on ballooning the cost of living so we all have to be millionaires

[bjmdds]

He is scared to death now about going it unilaterally with Pelosi and Reid. Do not delude yourself into thinking this crumb has decency. He is a Chicago political thug whose socialistic agenda will fail, and fail miserably. First Congress in 8 months, then we fumigate the liberal stench out of the White House in 2012. He's going down Kris, no 'bout a doubt it'.

It's certainly starting to look that way. Once again, the corporations win and the American people lose. That's why I quit the USA for a country where you don't have to be rich to get healthcare - I could see the writing on the wall. He is indeed scared to death (and sadly not the "Chicago political thug" the American people thought they were voting for, someone who would fight like a wildcat for their interests rather than those of the wealthiest 0.1% of the population). He needs to remember that the American people WANT a radical agenda, that's why they voted for him in a landslide. If he loses in November and again in 2012, it will be because of his own timidity, not because the inbred rednecks of the Tea Party are in any way representative of public opinion, whatever the corporate media would like you to believe. That's what happens when you throw your own base under the bus in order to make nice with an implacable opposition. Your voters get demoralised and stay home while the 25-30% of the population who still think George W. Bush was a good President remain as energised as they ever were.

He was voted in as a novelty act with NO experience in governing, no experience in the workforce except with ACORN, and the results bear it out. Gitmo is still open. Defense Secretary Gates is still there. Yet, he claimed Bush was wrong. This makes him look like the fake candidate he was. Nobody really fainted at his rallies, and he is a carnival shill with tricks. He does not deserve to lead the great USA. Sorry you left Kris for other pastures.

[Kristatos]

He was voted in as a novelty act with NO experience in governing, no experience in the workforce except with ACORN, and the results bear it out. Gitmo is still open. Defense Secretary Gates is still there. Yet, he claimed Bush was wrong. This makes him look like the fake candidate he was. Nobody really fainted at his rallies, and he is a carnival shill with tricks. He does not deserve to lead the great USA. Sorry you left Kris for other pastures.

I agree with most of this, though I can excuse being "a carnival shill with tricks", as that seems to be the only way to succeed in politics. All politics is theater to a certain extent, at least in our media-driven age. A candidate with wooden teeth (George Washington) or a funny-looking beard (Abraham Lincoln), let alone an illegitimate child (Thomas Jefferson, among others) wouldn't stand a chance nowadays. You can't blame Obama for that, it's just the times we live in.

One tiny point, Obama never worked for ACORN, except as their defense lawyer, though he has worked alongside them as a community organizer. You might say that's a distinction without a difference, but I'm a pedant, so it's in my nature to point out factual errors when I spot them, however minor.

[Dr. Joseph]

Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) says the House ethics committee is investigating him for inappropriate comments he made to a male staffer on New Year's Eve — and that he's the victim of a power play by Democratic leaders who want him out of Congress because he's a "no" vote on health care reform.

"Mine is now the deciding vote on the health care bill," Massa, who on Friday announced his intention to resign, said during a long monologue on radio station WKPQ. "And this administration and this House leadership have said, quote-unquote, they will stop at nothing to pass this health care bill. And now they've gotten rid of me, and it will pass. You connect the dots."

Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Massa insisted that he did not know the basis of a House ethics committee investigation into his conduct until after he announced his retirement last Wednesday, and he took House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) to task for going public with information related to the probe before it is completed.

In the monologue — an audio recording of which has been posted by Rochester's WHAM-TV — Massa said he first heard that the ethics committee was questioning his staff in early February but had no idea why.

He said he now understands the basis of the committee's investigation — and dismissed it as a matter of "political correctness" gone awry.

"I have to come find out that on New Year's Eve, I went to a staff party — it was actually a wedding for a staff member of mine," Massa said. "There were 250 people there. I was with my wife, and in fact we had a great time. She got the stomach flu, I went down to sing "Auld Lang Syne." And with cameras on me — I'm talking three of them — filming me, I danced with the bride, and I danced with the bridesmaid. Absolutely nothing occurred.

"I said goodnight to the bridesmaid. I sat at down at the table where my whole staff was, all of them, by the way, bachelors. One of them looked at me and — as they would do after, I don't know, 15 gin and tonics and goodness only knows how many bottles of champagne — a staff member made an intonation to me that maybe I should be chasing after the bridesmaid. His points were clear, and his words were far more colorful than that.

"And I grabbed the staff member sitting next to me and I said, 'What I really ought to be doing is frakking you,' and then tossled the guy's hair and left, went to my room, because I knew the party was getting to a point where I shouldn't be there."

"Was that inappropriate of me? Absolutely."

A Massa aide has told POLITICO that the New York Democrat has been engaged in inappropriate behavior “for eight months.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/03 ... z0hbNdROgk

[Kristatos]

Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) says the House ethics committee is investigating him for inappropriate comments he made to a male staffer on New Year's Eve — and that he's the victim of a power play by Democratic leaders who want him out of Congress because he's a "no" vote on health care reform.

I don't know what to make of this story. Courageous fighter for single-payer or seedy old perv? I suppose we'll have to wait for the results of the investigation.

[Dr. Joseph]

Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) says the House ethics committee is investigating him for inappropriate comments he made to a male staffer on New Year's Eve — and that he's the victim of a power play by Democratic leaders who want him out of Congress because he's a "no" vote on health care reform.

I don't know what to make of this story. Courageous fighter for single-payer or seedy old perv? I suppose we'll have to wait for the results of the investigation.

Departing Rep. Eric Massa goes down swinging - at his fellow Democrats
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... z0hcCQjzt3

How about a old pervert who is a courageous fighter? He stays on the topic of shower rooms far too long. Representative Massa = this years Larry Craig?

[Dr. No]

One thing we could fix right now is something George W. Bush screwed up. Bankruptcy law was changed a few years back to disallow medical bills/ expenses. We could fix this tomorrow but nobody will do it. The reason we did this in the first place was to drive down medical costs by keeping delinquency rates down.
even if everybod y has medical insurance and every illegal alien paid their own way at the clinics and hospitals it wouldn't drive teh cost of care down. There are fundamental problems being ignored by both sides.

The credit card bill of rights or whatever they call it was supposed to help the consumer but were written by the credit card lobbyist in washington, I see it as more of the same with this health care bill. I don't believe they intend to ever reconcile it even if it passes.

[Kristatos]

One thing we could fix right now is something George W. Bush screwed up. Bankruptcy law was changed a few years back to disallow medical bills/ expenses.

It was? Then how come my wife and I were able to file medical bankruptcy last year? In fact, medical bills are the cause of something like 70% of all bankruptcies in America.

[Dr. No]

One thing we could fix right now is something George W. Bush screwed up. Bankruptcy law was changed a few years back to disallow medical bills/ expenses.

It was? Then how come my wife and I were able to file medical bankruptcy last year? In fact, medical bills are the cause of something like 70% of all bankruptcies in America.

You must be right then. I thought in 2005-06 they changed the laws to make it more difficult to write off medical bills. Then again that may have been the DNC spin on it.

My wife's brother went bankrupt in 2003, it wasn't because of medical bill although most people get double slammed by medical bill on top of bad dept load encouraged upon us. What happened to my brother in law was the bad economy after 9/11 (enron and the others) just knocked him on his ass. He couldn't get ahead an none of us were in a position to help out. most people just get by the cost of living is so damned high. When my parents got married it was a different world, they could afford a decent apartment and all the utilities and still save money, we Mrs Dr No and I were married we couldn't afford peanut butter sandwiches, not and make the rent.

[bjmdds]

Dan Rather showed himself to be a true liberal fake by his Watermelon analogy to Oh-bama. You do not see this headline news as it would be if Cheney or another Republican said that. This is the reason I despise the liberal media. They are all frauds and their views of the world are sick.

[Dr. No]

I am hopping against hope this crooked health care deal goes belly up. Obama has me really angry he tried to force this pork bill though.

Right now they are saying the FIXIT bill cannot go to the senate, hopefully that should kill it.

Where is the sense push this bill though when the American people do not want it, Obama telling the representatives to do it any way even if it cost them their job. WTF! It is their job to do the people's will, not the DNCs not Obama's. I don't think he has every had anybody so no to him, and the American people have. The reason the Dems will lose this November is because they tried to go aganst what their constituents want, not because they didn't do enough. It is because they did too much.

[Kristatos]

The reason the Dems will lose this November is because they tried to go aganst what their constituents want, not because they didn't do enough. It is because they did too much.

Bollocks. Every opinion poll shows that the American people want far more progressive reforms (especially, but not exclusively, on healthcare) than anything the milquetoast Obama administration is offering. If Obama could get Medicare for All through Congress, he would clean up at the next election. The Tea Party crowd do not speak for America, however much they tell themselves otherwise via their Fox News/Free Republic/Washington Times echo chamber. They themselves admit as much - one of their key arguments against a single payer system is that if it was instituted, the American people would like it so much that they wouldn't ever want to return to for-profit healthcare. Meanwhile, Sarah Palin's approval ratings are barely higher than Bush's were at the end of his Presidency. If (or should I say when) the Dems lose big in November, it will be because they threw their own voters under the bus. Democratic voters will stay home in droves, whereas the Republican base will be as energised as ever.