Don't be so judgemental

Post by **The Sweeney** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:42 am

carl stromberg wrote:Remember not to argue with me, Sweeney, or I will take some of your Bondbucks away!

d**n! Ok carl.....you win.

I take everything I said back....as long as you give me 200 Bondbucks.

Jedi007 · Post by **Jedi007** » Thu May 03, 2007 2:04 am

The Sweeney wrote:
Jedi007 wrote:Who said so? Heh... Americans... Think they know everything that's going on around them... Ano ha? Alam nyo ba tong sinasabi ko!
Americans? The entire country?

Sweeping generalisation, don't you think. And the BO figures in the US are more or less in line with Brosnan's 4 films too, so American's didn't like Brosnan either.....

No... that's not about it. What I mean here is that you 'westerners' talk as if you talk for everyone else. I'm sorry for the 'westerners' at my side but this is what I've observed and this is the reality. I am also a member of other boards and since they are all about English-speaking films (Star Wars, Spiderman etc.) it's obvious that they'll be filled with English-speaking people. And when I told them i do not like Craig, well, you know what happened.

You turn to what your critics say: What the heck, I don't give a d**n what the American critics say; I could watch a film even if they don't like it; besides they're of a little number compared to who have seen the film, and everyone can be a critic.

You turn to your BO numbers: if success could be measured in BO figures then people must really like DIE ANOTHER DAY!

You turn to your internet votes rating: How many people who have watched the film do you think would waste their time to vote in the internet?

Your press calls us a minority, when the truth is just a few from the 'anti' side voice out their opinions: How many do you think would waste their time on the internet just to sign-in on some boards to say that they do not like Craig?

Your magazines said that Craig was liked by a lot of people; Your 'People Magazine' doesn't even reach our country!

Post by **The Sweeney** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:47 am

Jedi007 wrote:
The Sweeney wrote:
Jedi007 wrote:Who said so? Heh... Americans... Think they know everything that's going on around them... Ano ha? Alam nyo ba tong sinasabi ko!
Americans? The entire country?

Sweeping generalisation, don't you think. And the BO figures in the US are more or less in line with Brosnan's 4 films too, so American's didn't like Brosnan either.....
No... that's not about it. What I mean here is that you 'westerners' talk as if you talk for everyone else. I'm sorry for the 'westerners' at my side but this is what I've observed and this is the reality. I am also a member of other boards and since they are all about English-speaking films (Star Wars, Spiderman etc.) it's obvious that they'll be filled with English-speaking people. And when I told them i do not like Craig, well, you know what happened.

You turn to what your critics say: What the heck, I don't give a d**n what the American critics say; I could watch a film even if they don't like it; besides they're of a little number compared to who have seen the film, and everyone can be a critic.

You turn to your BO numbers: if success could be measured in BO figures then people must really like DIE ANOTHER DAY!

You turn to your internet votes rating: How many people who have watched the film do you think would waste their time to vote in the internet?

Your press calls us a minority, when the truth is just a few from the 'anti' side voice out their opinions: How many do you think would waste their time on the internet just to sign-in on some boards to say that they do not like Craig?

Your magazines said that Craig was liked by a lot of people; Your 'People Magazine' doesn't even reach our country!

Hahaha!!

So what makes you so sure then that the entire US of A hated Craig with a passion. Point me into the direction of some hard evidence please....

(sigh) wipes tears of laughter away.....

Jedi007 · Post by **Jedi007** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:29 am

Hahaha!!

So what makes you so sure then that the entire US of A hated Craig with a passion. Point me into the direction of some hard evidence please....

(sigh) wipes tears of laughter away.....

You totally miss the point... and I thought I was talking to intelligent people here. I didn't even say that the entire USA hates Daniel Craig; what I mean here is the Americans and people from that side of the globe talks as if the whole world agrees with them. You even use numbers and figures just to support your opinions, when in reality it doesn't matter to the world. A few just know of the Flemingesque Bond, and the entire world knows of the suave cinematic Bond. Where so you get the idea that I said USA hates Craig. Maybe it should be me that is laughing right now...

Post by **The Sweeney** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:09 am

Jedi007 wrote:
Hahaha!!

So what makes you so sure then that the entire US of A hated Craig with a passion. Point me into the direction of some hard evidence please....

(sigh) wipes tears of laughter away.....
You totally miss the point... and I thought I was talking to intelligent people here. I didn't even say that the entire USA hates Daniel Craig; what I mean here is the Americans and people from that side of the globe talks as if the whole world agrees with them. You even use numbers and figures just to support your opinions, when in reality it doesn't matter to the world. A few just know of the Flemingesque Bond, and the entire world knows of the suave cinematic Bond. Where so you get the idea that I said USA hates Craig. Maybe it should be me that is laughing right now...

You obviously are laughing....feel free - laugh away!

I misinterpreted your original comments. I thought your claim was that Americans don't like Craig. Obviously I was wrong.

Worldwide, CR has been a hit. There is no denying that, no matter what your opinions on Craig are. Will the world be as positive for Bond 22? Who knows.....

Jedi007 · Post by **Jedi007** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:24 am

Worldwide, CR has been a hit. There is no denying that, no matter what your opinions on Craig are. Will the world be as positive for Bond 22? Who knows.....

It's not about Craig. It's about the so-called critical and box office success of CR, and that's the whole point of my argument; that it doesn't really matter to the world. Everyone can watch a film even a few critics don't like it. And if success is to be measured through BO numbers, then DAD must be really successful.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:09 am

Jedi007 wrote:
Worldwide, CR has been a hit. There is no denying that, no matter what your opinions on Craig are. Will the world be as positive for Bond 22? Who knows.....
It's not about Craig. It's about the so-called critical and box office success of CR, and that's the whole point of my argument; that it doesn't really matter to the world. Everyone can watch a film even a few critics don't like it. And if success is to be measured through BO numbers, then DAD must be really successful.

`So-called critical and box office success'? You make that sound like CR hasn't been a critical and BO success.

CR has been a worldwide BO success, a worldwide critical success, and a worlwide hit with the majority of Bond fans on the internet forums.

You tell me another benchmark on how to judge if a film is successful or not.

Jedi007 · Post by **Jedi007** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:59 am

CR has been a worldwide BO success,

So is DAD.

a worldwide critical success,

Worldwide? How do you know that?

and a worlwide hit with the majority of Bond fans on the internet forums.

If you haven't read my posts above, then I'll ask this again: How many people worldwide who have seen this film do you think would waste their time on the internet just to sign-in on some boards to say that they do not like Craig?

Post by **The Sweeney** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:14 pm

Jedi007 wrote:
Worldwide? How do you know that?

If you haven't read my posts above, then I'll ask this again: How many people worldwide who have seen this film do you think would waste their time on the internet just to sign-in on some boards to say that they do not like Craig?

Check global reviews and BO figures if you want to know what kind of worldwide success CR has been.

Your second question...dunno. Probably a dozen (the dozen who are on here).

I tell you what. Neither of us can prove each other right or wrong right now, although my argument holds more weight than yours because at least I have something to back it up, even if it is just BO figures and critical reviews, whereas you are just speculating in hope that the majority of people worldwide who went to see CR hated it as much as you do.

So the only way to prove if people did like CR is to look at DVD figures....(oops! Looks like I win again).

Ok, let's be fairer than that. We'll look at Bond 22 when that comes out. If you are right with your theory, then Bond 22 will flop miserably. If I am proved right, then Bond 22 will equal, or even exceed CR's BO takings.

So....who thinks Jedi will be proved right, and who thinks I will be proved right?

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:22 am

It's difficult to speculate the outcome of Bond 22. I for one will watch it in the hope we get an improvement. It won't matter to me if the reviews are glowing or are not so impressive. EON will probably not need to invest as much in marketing this time round, as people are familiar with Craig being Bond. Whether or not this will have an effect of the amount of people going to watch the film is a point open for debate. At this moment in time we do not know for sure whether everyone who saw CR will want to go back to see Bond 22. It may well be the case that some people who missed CR will want to catch Bond 22. My own prediction will be that CR tops the BO takings of CR yet the admissions will be down. I think CR will be the peak of Craig's tennure as James Bond.

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:54 pm

Skywalker wrote:My own prediction will be that CR tops the BO takings of CR yet the admissions will be down. I think CR will be the peak of Craig's tennure as James Bond.

After the comments I have heard from people who were tired of Bond.
They have been given a boost after seeing CR and what Craig has done in the role.
I think CR is just the begining of a massive resurgance in the popularity of OO7.
Should Bond 22 be as big as CR (and hopefully bigger) then I think Bond 23 will be something massive.
It's a great time to be a Bond fan right now...well for most of us anyway.

Post by **Kristatos** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:05 pm

Skywalker wrote:At this moment in time we do not know for sure whether everyone who saw CR will want to go back to see Bond 22. It may well be the case that some people who missed CR will want to catch Bond 22.

Yeah, with such a drastic change of direction, it's inevitable that some Bond fans will have been driven away by CR, to be replaced by others who like the Craig style of Bond film. The gamble for EON is that the latter group will outnumber the former. Only time will tell.

Captain Nash · Post by **Captain Nash** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:29 pm

From general conversation and my understanding of current events, it appears that the fans that have been created or re-introduced to Bond again, outweigh the fans who feel driven away (and still go and see Bond films despite there new found disdain of the series).
Cubby I'm sure would've been proud of the gamble that was taken, and the outcome of that gamble.

Post by **Kristatos** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:14 pm

Captain Nash wrote:From general conversation and my understanding of current events

I wouldn't put too much store in anecdotal evidence. Many's the time I thought a film was going to be a hit based on what "everybody" was saying, only for it to be a flop, and vice versa (remember Snakes on a Plane?). I'm not saying your conversations are wrong, just that the people we come into contact with represent too small a sample of the general public to be a reliable barometer of audience tastes.

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm

Captain Nash wrote: I think CR is just the begining of a massive resurgance in the popularity of OO7.

This is where IMO you lose credability. Bond 22 may well be successfull, but to say that CR is the begining of a massive resurgance in popularity just lacks foundation.

Whether you like PB's portrayal or not, there is no denying that he was consistently popular.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Skywalker wrote:
Captain Nash wrote: I think CR is just the begining of a massive resurgance in the popularity of OO7.
This is where IMO you lose credability. Bond 22 may well be successfull, but to say that CR is the begining of a massive resurgance in popularity just lacks foundation.

I don't agree. Huge worldwide BO takings, excellent, almost unaminous critical reviews, award nominations, high acclaim from the vast majority of internet Bond fans.

To me this is a good foundation on which to predict the next film on. What other foundation can you base it on?

Skywalker wrote:
Whether you like PB's portrayal or not, there is no denying that he was consistently popular.

No one is denying that, but the big difference with Craig and Brozza is, Craig is winning at the BO and the majority of critics too.
This never happened to the other fella.....

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:54 pm

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote:
Captain Nash wrote: I think CR is just the begining of a massive resurgance in the popularity of OO7.
This is where IMO you lose credability. Bond 22 may well be successfull, but to say that CR is the begining of a massive resurgance in popularity just lacks foundation.
I don't agree. Huge worldwide BO takings, excellent, almost unaminous critical reviews, award nominations, high acclaim from the vast majority of internet Bond fans.

The admissions were not as high for a new Bond film with a different actor than for Goldeneye. The then high consistent tournout was unprecedented for Bond films. CR did obtain higher admissions, but this was needed after the huge marketing CR had. I dont discount the awards CR has received and in that repect yes it has received more acclaim, but it has also receved plenty of criticism.

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote: Whether you like PB's portrayal or not, there is no denying that he was consistently popular.
No one is denying that, but the big difference with Craig and Brozza is, Craig is winning at the BO and the majority of critics too.
This never happened to the other fella.....

'Massive resurgance in popularity'? This is where a modicum of constructive, balanced and sound reasoning is required.

Post by **The Sweeney** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:46 pm

Skywalker wrote: The admissions were not as high for a new Bond film with a different actor than for Goldeneye. The then high consistent tournout was unprecedented for Bond films.

Mainly because LTK was so low, following on the back of an 80's era which had grown tired of Bond (for whatever reason). A 6 year gap did GE wonders.

Skywalker wrote:
I dont discount the awards CR has received and in that repect yes it has received more acclaim, but it has also receved plenty of criticism.

Has any film ever in history not received criticism? If you look at the IMDB reviews, Rotten Tomato reviews on the web, this gives a clear picture on how people are receiving CR. I have yet to read a bad review in any publication on CR (yes, honestly!) The only negative reviews are the random internet ones found on some obscure website on Planet Mars, with alien lifeform that have discovered the internet, and end up finding their way on here. Negative reviews of CR are as rare as the DAD Appreciation Society, hence why they are posted on here very swiftly.

Skywalker wrote:
'Massive resurgance in popularity'? This is where a modicum of constructive, balanced and sound reasoning is required.

No one can say for sure, until Bond 22 is released, but looking at the BO figures, the critic ratings, the internet polls, etc. I think one can hazard an educated guess as to what will happen with Bond 22....

Post by **carl stromberg** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:55 pm

The only negative reviews are the random internet ones found on some obscure website on Planet Mars, with alien lifeform that have discovered the internet, and end up finding their way on here.

Post by **Skywalker** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:00 pm

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote: The admissions were not as high for a new Bond film with a different actor than for Goldeneye. The then high consistent tournout was unprecedented for Bond films.
Mainly because LTK was so low, on the back of an 80's era which had grown tired of Bond, I think (for whatever reason). A 6 year gap did GE wonders.

So in conclusion, GE rejuvanated the franchise and maintained a popular consistency.

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote: I dont discount the awards CR has received and in that repect yes it has received more acclaim, but it has also receved plenty of criticism.
Has any film ever in history ever not received criticism? If you look at the IMDB reviews, Rotten Tomato reviews on the web, this gives a clear picture on how people are receiving CR. I have yet to read a bad review in any publication on CR (yes, honestly!) The only negative reviews are the random internet ones found on some obscure website on Planet Mars, with alien lifeform that have discovered the internet, and end up finding their way on here. Negative reviews of CR are quite rare, hence why they are posted on here very swiftly.

Never said no film has never received criticism. I was giving a balanced perspective on CR.

The Sweeney wrote:
Skywalker wrote:
'Massive resurgance in popularity'? This is where a modicum of constructive, balanced and sound reasoning is required.
No one can say for sure, until Bond 22 is released, but looking at the BO figures, the critic ratings, the internet polls, etc. I think one can hazard an educated guess as to what will happen with Bond 22....

I agree that no-one knows for sure.