The BJMDDS General Discussion Thread......

[Atticus]

when pretensious critics praised these movie for cheap psychology.

The critics' opinion doesn't seem to be holding back the crowd's from flocking in their droves, to see Spectre.

Um, actually the bad reviews have affected the film. Which is why it had such a weak opening here in the US, and it spread into the word-of-mouth aspect. But you're obviously delusional.

[Alessandra]

I'm not even going to waste time addressing trolls, you all have already done an excellent job at showing things for what they are.
In case these people don't know, movies make their profit in the first two weekends, mainly in the first one, in the US. So. This one was well below the previous and BJ is absolutely correct that it's 30% below. They are called numbers. Can't spin MATH. It is what it is. Compare the numbers for the same weeks and then shut up.

I don't think there is ANY way this movie makes $1bln which is the minimum they need JUST TO BREAK EVEN, let's not forget. And by the way, I keep seeing colleagues in press reporting an INACCURATE budget figure of $250 mln about the budget. NO, it's $300 mln and it was in the SONY leaks and not just that, but they specified how the $300 mln had ALREADY gone out the window and it was still levitating. So... that prompted the MGM person to ask for cuts in budget, and suggest very sensible ways of doing so, and they weren't listened to. I don't understand why they behave as if people are stupid, and don't know. Oh yeah, I do. Entertainment "journalism". Kissing up to studios, actors and any producer since the beginning of time. Anyway, a lot of people are seeing the movie but as usual, people don't realize at all HOW MANY people it takes for a movie to just break even. And it's a hell of a lot of them. We've been through the math many times, I showed an article recently that entirely confirmed it (not that I had any doubt) but anyway.. 3x the production budget just to break even PLUS there are publicity costs to keep into account and for this one they were no less than about $150 mln.

[Mazer Rackham]

Staggering amount of massaging going into those budget numbers - still no Happy Ending in sight. The spin masters offering up low ball total budget counting in tax breaks mixed with other ethereal credits is Hollywood accounting with no fact checking, good for publicity no studio wants to publicly look like they blew their entire years budget on one movie -internal studio books will look very different. Assume the bargain basement low-ball 350m total is correct they will not break even with theatrical rental, home video will be another dud -all this is not counting in taxes, other fees and bonuses paid out to participants.

The amusing part of this fiasco is Sony blaming Danny boy for this. It was their lack of security which exposed so many secrets including the half-baked script and out of control budget. Sony is a piss poor promoter nobody in the business thinks they have done a good job promoting the Bond series, common assumption is not promoting a movie correctly is the same as leaving money on the table. Craig screwed the pooch during the build up no doubt, I'm sure someone inside the studio is trying to put a finger on the exact cause behind the hemorrhaging of money -Danno's name is sure to be coming up again and again.

Never in the history of the franchise has the public been so ready for a change. EON and MGM would be wise to use this moment to change horses, problem being the family behind Bond are idiots who think they have more influence than they actually do. If I were MGM I'd use a new partnership as leverage to change this up -the attendance numbers are evidence enough the audience needs to be jarred out of their stupor (actually it's Babs and her Brofeld's creative stupor). I'd argue after ten years the audience needs something fresh to get their attention again. Some inside EON do have a plan, they were ready to go in 2011 for a fresh start in 2012 getting rid of the Craig baggage. Nobody with half a brain can fail to notice how horrible Craig is for the franchise, his behavior and influence has cost them a lot of money and prestige, maybe more considering how precarious Sony and MGM finances are.

I'd look for Spectre attendance numbers to be down in the pre-Skyfall levels. Inflation is going to mask some of this so will a few outliers.

Code: Select all

The World Is Not Enough 77.2M
Die Another Day 78.6M
Casino Royale 90M 
Quantum of Solace 84M 

[Mazer Rackham]

Just saw it last night at the Gibraltar premier, and I thought it was superb. Not as good as Casino Royale (at the moment), but much better than Quantum and Skyfall.

Craig's best performance yet. He oozes cool in just about every scene, looking more McQueen than ever, and we finally have a Bond film which combines the gritty serious elements, plus the traditional gadget and humour elements successfully. This performance by Craig is on par with Connery in Thunderball.

Swann is by far the best Bond girl in a long time, and the love story is actually very convincing.

Soundtrack blew me away, the train fight has to be one of the best in the series, and loved the car chase. The torture scene was fairly horrific too, maybe worse than CR.

The only thing I'm not sure on is the ending (not the Aston bit, which was good), but the Thames helicopter chase. I need to see it again to decide on that one.

Overall, this is Craig meets Moore, and the most traditional Bond film from the Craig era.

Mate, going to the movies with you must be like riding a roller coaster with a ten year old girl! (Signed in with the sole intention of slamming you!)

There is a difference in experiencing a movie and watching it. Many fans feel well chuffed on their first viewing where they experienced it, watching it is where they are forced to suffer through the stupidity of it. As a Action movie it ticks the boxes and as a action movie it does not completely fail --except in logic, there is none to be found. As a Bond movie I can't begin to rate it because it compromises so much it fails to meet the bar. If I'm forced to rank it as Bond movie then I am forced to go out side the EON franchise to rank the clone movies like Kingsman and The November Man above it.

[FormerBondFan]

It will trully be disgraceful if he comes back after what he said. I still have hope left that Barbara has that much brain to see how he needs to be fired.

We don't need Babs. She needs to go once DC leaves, but considering she won't go down that easily, then James Bond is NOT for us anymore.

[ml94]

Cr-egg's been around tooooooooooooo long now and after 10 years it should be time for the next Bond actor.

And new producers as well.

MGW sons...

[ml94]

2019 new bond movie & new actor.

[English Agent]

This topic, about how much money SP needs to make, before it makes a profit, has been debated quite a bit recently, mainly in the US film trade media.
The general opinion is that the film needs to make an absolute minimum of $650 mil (as quoted by 'Variety', before going into the black,
I don't know, and no one here knows really what the film needs to earn to recoup its production and marketing costs.
I certainly don't think it can be as high as some have predicted...........as this would mean that none of the previous Bond films, made in the 21st century would of made any money..........and it fact would of made huge losses, even taking into account Dvd sales & TV rights.

I could write an essay, on this subject, but its so tiresome..........i would rather embalm myself instead.

[Omega]

I think it was delete but we did have the number for previous films and most of them didn't make money right off . Craig himself said it cost as much or more to advertise than it does to make the movie.

I don't believe the low number taking the film from over $350 million to 240-250 + p&a


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[bjmdds]

The $250 million is what EON had to spend THEMSELVES, with MGM and SONY, AFTER they used the product placements fees to bring the costs down under $300 million I believe. If it ACTUALLY cost $350 million to make, and they received and used $100 million in product fees, tax incentives in countries, etc., their NET outlay was around $250 million it seems, BEFORE P&A costs.

[bjmdds]

This topic, about how much money SP needs to make, before it makes a profit, has been debated quite a bit recently, mainly in the US film trade media.
The general opinion is that the film needs to make an absolute minimum of $650 mil (as quoted by 'Variety', before going into the black,
I don't know, and no one here knows really what the film needs to earn to recoup its production and marketing costs.
I certainly don't think it can be as high as some have predicted...........as this would mean that none of the previous Bond films, made in the 21st century would of made any money..........and it fact would of made huge losses, even taking into account Dvd sales & TV rights.

I could write an essay, on this subject, but its so tiresome..........i would rather embalm myself instead.

EA, it cost them around $400 million TOTAL, out of pocket, to produce and promote this trash film. They get 50% from the USA take, 40% overseas, and 25% from China. Do the math and you will see around $1 billion is required to BREAK EVEN, unless you personally keep doling out the family fortune in the UK to support Broccoli's incarnation. ----$200 million USA nets them $100 million------$600 million overseas nets them $240 million--------$200 million in China nets them $50 million.............their "total outlay" cost is around $400 million, so $1 billion worldwide is required to BREAK EVEN.

[English Agent]

This topic, about how much money SP needs to make, before it makes a profit, has been debated quite a bit recently, mainly in the US film trade media.
The general opinion is that the film needs to make an absolute minimum of $650 mil (as quoted by 'Variety', before going into the black,
I don't know, and no one here knows really what the film needs to earn to recoup its production and marketing costs.
I certainly don't think it can be as high as some have predicted...........as this would mean that none of the previous Bond films, made in the 21st century would of made any money..........and it fact would of made huge losses, even taking into account Dvd sales & TV rights.

I could write an essay, on this subject, but its so tiresome..........i would rather embalm myself instead.

EA, it cost them around $400 million TOTAL, out of pocket, to produce and promote this trash film. They get 50% from the USA take, 40% overseas, and 25% from China. Do the math and you will see around $1 billion is required to BREAK EVEN, unless you personally keep doling out the family fortune in the UK to support Broccoli's incarnation.

All i was saying, was that as the previous films cost a fortune to make as well, but had grosses about half of what SF had, and what SP could reach?, then they must of been financial disasters as well?
Anyway...........i only contributed £20 to the worldwide grosses (2 cinema visits, and that's it for me.

btw:- SP only grossed $33,681,104 in North America in its 2nd weekend.

[bjmdds]

SF did over $35 million in the USA weekend 3, which is more than ECT-TRE did here in it's 2nd weekend. It's $32 million behind SF already here. The verdict is in.

[Omega]

SF did over $35 million in the USA weekend 3, which is more than ECT-TRE did here in it's 2nd weekend. It's $32 million behind SF already here. The verdict is in.

it dropped to $33



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[Omega]

This topic, about how much money SP needs to make, before it makes a profit, has been debated quite a bit recently, mainly in the US film trade media.
The general opinion is that the film needs to make an absolute minimum of $650 mil (as quoted by 'Variety', before going into the black,
I don't know, and no one here knows really what the film needs to earn to recoup its production and marketing costs.
I certainly don't think it can be as high as some have predicted...........as this would mean that none of the previous Bond films, made in the 21st century would of made any money..........and it fact would of made huge losses, even taking into account Dvd sales & TV rights.

I could write an essay, on this subject, but its so tiresome..........i would rather embalm myself instead.

EA, it cost them around $400 million TOTAL, out of pocket, to produce and promote this trash film. They get 50% from the USA take, 40% overseas, and 25% from China. Do the math and you will see around $1 billion is required to BREAK EVEN, unless you personally keep doling out the family fortune in the UK to support Broccoli's incarnation.

All i was saying, was that as the previous films cost a fortune to make as well, but had grosses about half of what SF had, and what SP could reach?, then they must of been financial disasters as well?
Anyway...........i only contributed £20 to the worldwide grosses (2 cinema visits, and that's it for me.

btw:- SP only grossed $33,681,104 in North America in its 2nd weekend.

EA I think so far qos was the only Craig to be a really big loser , proof is some of the stories assuming lower cost for sp are in the same ballpark qos was in and qos didn't make this much money.

Cr and sf made money but obviously sf was the brass ring and it was under $300 million profit split several ways.

But unless it bankrupts mgm it's no going to become public .

Btw look at the Harry Potter lawsuit and John carter to see what the cost real look like. Potter is in the same league as bond some the monies are near the same. WB was saying the didn't make money on a hugely successful movie. I don't remember how that lawsuit played out but if you search for it maybe it's still around


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[Omega]

EA here is part of what I was saying


This place claim WB hid profits

http://www.popmatters.com/column/192246 ... l-profit-/


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[English Agent]

EA here is part of what I was saying

This place claim WB hid profits

http://www.popmatters.com/column/192246 ... l-profit-/

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Thanks 'Omega' interesting article...........i knew there was, lets say creative accounting in the film business.........didn't know about that situation with 'Alien' though.

[bjmdds]

SF did over $35 million in the USA weekend 3, which is more than ECT-TRE did here in it's 2nd weekend. It's $32 million behind SF already here. The verdict is in.

it dropped to $33



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SF=Skyfall big O. It did over $35 million weekend 3 here. ECH-TRE will struggle to do $20 million it's 3rd weekend.

[FormerBondFan]

2019 new bond movie & new actor.

And new producer.

[bjmdds]

FBF, what are your plans to get Broccoli out now after what she did to Pierce in 2002 and the franchise now?